Bill Nye Debates Creationist Ken Ham Live 2/4/2014

It tends to happen when you allow course curriculum to be dictated by popular opinion, rather than consensus of those knowledgeable in the respective fields.

Also, there is a belief that increased scientific literacy leads to a less gullible target demographic, or at the very least a more inquisitive one, and that seems to affect people's sense of self worth with regards to their own religion.

Because the point of education isn't appeasement. It's education.
The basic problem is that there is a group of people who want to include creation in science classes, when creation is a theological topic, not a scientific one.

Milamber, you can have all my (+)

This choice already exists.

If you want to teach creationism to your kids, go to your Church on weekends. Public schools deal in reality, religious organizations deal with supernatural metaphysics.

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, people take these farcical tales as their reality. In a world a higher learning, should we restrict what -Students- want to learn? If they'd like the option, should they not have it?

Like theology class in public school as an elective? I can see that.

I would have liked the option for a 2-hour long nap class after lunch, but those silly educational standards got in the way.

You do have that choice, in college, seminary or divinity school. Children are subject to their status as minors to follow the curricula presented to them by adults.

School is supposed to be a place of critical thinking, comprehensive coverage and learning on what exists in this physical realm not what people choose to believe. World Religions are covered (poorly) in history and social studies and if a student chooses they can take their free time and learn further on the religion of their choosing.

If creationism wants a foothold in classrooms, I want to be able to peddle my belief that unicorns seeded Earth with life and the Ancient Aliens guy will want to have classroom time explaining his ancient astronauts theory.

I think you miss the point. We shouldn't restrict what people have the desire to learn, while it should never be a mandatory class, I believe people should have the option to study as they wish.

/enddiscussion

If tomorrow, someone brings evidences that the current theories are wrong, Bill Nye and every real scientists will accept thoses facts and create new theories. However, you could bring every evidence you want to creationists they will still manage to find something to ignore them and keep believing in their HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE theories.

Scientology has no place in school.

I have no personal objection to a theology class as an elective, provided that it focuses on either a significant number of religions for a broad perspective (e.g. monothesitic vs. polytheistic), or a significant number of religions for a narrow perspective (e.g. comparative creation myths, comparative holidays).

In other words, it provides exposure to all (for a reasonable value of all) belief systems, rather than a specific one.

But the question becomes what are you willing to sacrifice in order to allow that. Personally, I'd argue that comparative theology would be significantly more beneficial as a whole than art history, for example.

People do have an option to study as they wish, on their own time. The US doesn't prevent them from continuing their education outside of school. Now, parents on the other hand...

That is the major limiting factor. :)

*** me, I'm addicted to this creation website.


I can't stop reading PLZ HALP

For any scientifically unsavvy people around here, let me explain why I show little but disgust for creationists that write ***like that creationist site and engage in these debates.

The way they write their arguments makes anybody that knows about the topic see that they obviously know the topic, but they'll edit out whatever they need to in order to convince the gullible and ignorant. They'll edit it just enough so that it still sounds legitimate but it pushes the creationist agenda.

Why? Because this how they make a living. They don't give a ***about you, or god. This is just how they scum their way through life.

I have a headache, and after reading this, it's a lot worse now.


...THANKS OBAMA.

Did I do it right?

This is great. http://creation.com/where-are-all-the-people

Dude totally blows evolutionary theory out of the water using napkin math. WHAR ALL DA PEEPLES AT

just wow... guy totally ignores the fact the boom in the global population has occurred relatively recently with respect to the "petroleum revolution" of the last century.

WHAR ALL DE BODIES!!!??? China?

..Those quotes...


There are not enough Jackie images on "teh internetz" to fully express the whiskey tango foxtrot of that site.

Not only that, but with modern medicine being available to more people instead of JUST the rich and simple diseases having a cure AND vaccine, and instead of people having 10 children and only 2-3 surviving, people will have 10 children and all of them will thrive.

Just.. wut.

China is in enough deep water as it is. With all the smog circulating and the one child rule (because every man has to have their name passed on), there are towns full of only men because the ratio of men to women has widened.

Then again this was last I heard/read about, so maybe girls are back in?

Wrong, unfortunately. The public education system as practiced in the United States and Europe is a Prussian invention designed to create conformity and inspire loyalty. Whether you actually learn anything, especially in primary education, is largely irrelevant. You are there to learn to accept and appease authority, especially arbitrary authority.

It's no coincidence that US schoolchildren mumble the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. When you think about it logically for one second, there's no conceivable reason to have a 6-year-old declare his patriotic allegiance except to instill obedient behavior. Fire drills are a more pragmatic form of "Do what you're told" because they come with the threat that it will save your life. Has anyone ever actually filed quietly from a building when it was on fire? But I'll bet if you ever happen to get caught in a prankster pulling a Bavarian fire drill, you'll hop in line.

And this is exactly why certain religious people want to have religious thought in school curricula. Get the idea into their heads while their skulls are still soft and you've got a much better chance of holding onto them for life. It's basic cult conditioning and it works frighteningly well.

That said, I attended Catholic schooling from 3rd through 12th grade and was always taught that the story of Creation is an allegory. I mean, there are literally two Creation myths in Genesis and they are side-by-side. Our schooling was more along the lines of "God made the universe, which may well have started with a Big Bang and evolution and such." We did have to suffer the Pledge of Allegiance and saying the Lord's Prayer every morning, though. I am happy to report that I have forgotten both the Pledge and the four different languages in which I used to know the Prayer.

You know, your whole post (while true) is also scary. May also explain a lot about society too, especially in today's society.

That's a relatively recent phenomenon, at least to the extent that is prevalent today. One may argue that has something to do with increased policing and zero-tolerance policies.
The best ways to have a population which simply accepts authority is to deprive it of educational opportunities, and comparative experiences.
Correct, it was instated in 1892, and has changed four times in the following 60 62 years. The original pledge was:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
It doesn't instill any more obedient behavior than forcing a 6-year-old to brush their teeth or go to bed on time. It attempts to instill unthinking patriotism rather than thoughtful consideration/reflection, which I would opine is far worse.
No argument there. However, there is a huge difference between teaching someone what to believe, versus what beliefs exist.
I'm sorry you forgot the four languages.
*Edited to correct duration, last change was in 1954*

Actually it isn't. High school biological and health science curriculum, in the US, is so antiquated it provides little education value. The textbooks that K-12 select along with the curriculum is very much appeasement.

What students get taught about evolution, which is the core of biology, is so out of date. Concepts like e.g. survival of the fittest hold no place in modern biology.

really enjoyed listening to this debate.

As I said, this method was invented by Prussians. There hasn't been a Prussia in quite a while. It's not a new thought. Actually, it wasn't a new thought when they came up with it, either, but Germans have a long history of being adept organizers and the success of their education system is in how it was institutionalized.

The real genius is that everyone reflexively defends the idea of public education on the basis of "think of the children!", to the point that, at least here in the States, it is quite obnoxious to privately educate a child. A mild contrast exists in, say, the Netherlands where public education is still an institution but parents and children are free to choose where they go. Here in the US, if you want a religious education or a math-and-science education or to teach your kids yourself, you have to pony up the cash (religious/private school), suffer bureaucratic hell, waiting lists, and tests (magnet schools), or suffer even worse bureaucratic hell (home schooling). Getting out of the public schooling system is made difficult and is often culturally stigmatized.

While it may be safer for a government to keep its serfs functionally HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE by denying them education, it also means you've got 99% of the population useless. While the world does need ditch-diggers, almost any other form of unskilled labor or service position requires a certain subset of skills. If you ever fill out a form to work at McDonald's, they *** some basic skills like math and such. So the institutionalized public education system is a compromise by creating a special form of ignorance -- educated enough to flip burgers, dumb enough to support the Tea Party.

And, yeah, I meant "blind obedience." Although I think that any form of obedience to arbitrary authority is inherently dangerous. The only reason I do silly things like listen to police orders is because they have guns and I have yet to be convinced that Mao Tse-tung was wrong about whence power grows.

Edit:
I may have phrased that badly. I still remember how to speak French and Spanish and I can still read some Latin. And I'm certainly fluent in English. I just don't remember the words of the Lord's Prayer in English, French, Spanish, or Latin anymore.

I can't wait for the next topic to arise that will make this "religion bashing thread" go away.