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Salvage 2.0 gear
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 12:55:16
The da damage on af2+2 doesn't work with ws, so no, other that wc crit rate aug the only thing they have over other legs is the da. As for the whole diminishing returns, i think its just poorly worded. As in, adding 3% from 0 being a larger percent of increase in attacks per round than adding it to say 25% da. Its the same increase in attacks per round, but it is a smaller portion of your attack per round total.
Its still wrong, but it sorta makes sense why they say it
If it's wrong, it doesn't make sense to me.
By Otomis 2012-12-15 12:58:26
Lets see some of this 2.0 gear posted in gear sets with comparison to gear sets we already know are at the top or near top mark.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 13:08:30
The only difference i see is are's legs in a high buff ukko and body for upheaval.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-12-15 13:09:43
Don't forget it looks pretty neat to idle in Ares cuirass.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 13:12:22
Don't forget it looks pretty neat to idle in Ares cuirass.
White box or bust... Are's looks kinda goofy on an elvaan
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 13:21:57
The only difference i see is are's legs in a high buff ukko and body for upheaval.
2/10 aint bad, all things considered. Perhaps the feet for upheaval too? or no?
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-12-15 13:23:19
Dilaram?
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 13:24:37
Yeah I know about those, and I was just looking and comparing. Little more str/att on Dil's but less acc, so it's a toss up unless they changed ares+1 to partial set effects, no? Partial affect would be dope considering the body is best upheaval.
 Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 13:37:57
There is potential for a high acc set.
Head is Ares +1, body is Ker's.
Compared to my set:
Assuming same grip: Alt set gains 1 STR, 2 DEX, 14 attack, and 1 acc for 4% DA and 1 Store TP which isn't required.
Also under the assumption my set is exactly at 95% cap, for those with Huginn feet, they can swap to that and Ravager's Orb to Fire Bomblet.
On par, and new set would be slightly better for those with Huginn.
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 13:39:49
Well it eliminates the need to buy mega expensive boot then (at least from the war's perspective).
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 13:58:32
Huginn are still the best Ukko's piece, though. And they save you an inventory slot over Dilaram's for Upheaval if you're into that kind of thing.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 14:03:05
Fair enough, the str beat the AF3+2, that's true. Just gotta ask yourself if that 9 STR is worth the massive price tag, but yeah I get ya.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 14:50:30
Ya too many situational pieces, drives me nuts. Like heca panties beating ogiers when the 12 acc is needed but 20 is overkill... Seriously
Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2012-12-15 15:24:23
Ya too many situational pieces, drives me nuts. Like heca panties beating ogiers when the 12 acc is needed but 20 is overkill... Seriously Which is pretty much why I think people should be more reluctant to make black&white statements, especially if they are disrespectful. Your current buffs will massively change things too.
Words like "terrible" or "amazing" can rarely be used genuinely.
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Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 15:39:33
Tbh, I'll still only carry 2 or 3. Ogier's and avant +1, possibly ares +1. Ogier's double for PDT and Avant +1 aren't that far behind when attack is capped anyways. Ares +1 I might carry around when I get them.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 15:53:29
Tbh, I'll still only carry 2 or 3. Ogier's and avant +1, possibly ares +1. Ogier's double for PDT and Avant +1 aren't that far behind when attack is capped anyways. Ares +1 I might carry around when I get them.
Same boat really, but i tend to change belt back neck etc more than i change legs depending on buffs. At this point i pretty much carry the set i need for what I'm doing and swap out of my sack if content or buffs change.
I'm not going to pull out a calculator to figure out what is the best before i hit my macro.
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-12-15 15:53:33
Question, does the warrior's charge augment on Cuisses +2 work on activation? Or do you need to wear them during the weaponskill as well?
*Edit* I have them macro'd in for activation, and only weaponskill in them when in capped acc/attk situations.
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 15:55:25
Doesn't work at all on WS.
Same boat really, but i tend to change belt back neck etc more than i change legs depending on buffs. What? Back and neck aren't debatable, waist is only accuracy dependent.
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-12-15 15:58:52
Doesn't work at all on WS.
The crit rate from the warrior's charge augment does not apply during weaponskills?
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 16:02:33
Doesn't work at all on WS.
The crit rate from the warrior's charge augment does not apply during weaponskills? Oh, sorry I thought you meant the DA damage. Pretty sure they have to be during the attack, though.
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-12-15 16:07:09
Doesn't work at all on WS.
The crit rate from the warrior's charge augment does not apply during weaponskills? Oh, sorry I thought you meant the DA damage. Pretty sure they have to be during the attack, though. Suppose I could test it by having them macro'd in and see if my crit rate goes up on my next attack round with something else equipped.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 16:39:36
Doesn't work at all on WS.
Same boat really, but i tend to change belt back neck etc more than i change legs depending on buffs. What? Back and neck aren't debatable, waist is only accuracy dependent.
So you would use gorget over portus if acc was capped? Rancorous over caracos during mighty strikes or in abby? Just saying i don't change legs much throughout a single type of content, but hands back neck waist do change.
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2012-12-15 17:36:34
Doesn't work at all on WS.
Same boat really, but i tend to change belt back neck etc more than i change legs depending on buffs. What? Back and neck aren't debatable, waist is only accuracy dependent.
So you would use gorget over portus if acc was capped? Rancorous over caracos during mighty strikes or in abby? Just saying i don't change legs much throughout a single type of content, but hands back neck waist do change.
Portus collar for ws? o.o
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By Odin.Registry 2012-12-15 18:09:16
It doesn't work like that.
Well, what I mean is (I think this is what you just said?)...
The percent gain in hits per round is greater when you're going from 0% to 1% than it is when you're going from 50% to 51%, comparatively. That's not what I'm saying at all.
X = DA%, Y = Average hits per round.
I know >_> a page or two late, but I feel the need to save face since I fell asleep last night.
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100 attack rounds
0% DA -> 1% DA = 100 -> 101 attacks per 100 rounds. ~1% increase.
50% DA -> 51% DA = 150 -> 151 attacks per 100 rounds. ~.77% increase.
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Granted, that ^ is almost completely irrelevant because you still gain 1 attack round per 1 DA in 100 attack rounds as long as there's no TA or QA.
I was tired and didn't quite explain myself so well, nor did I really get what you meant when you said the actual result vs. percent gain from X to Y. So, my bad.
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 18:13:51
Doesn't work at all on WS.
Same boat really, but i tend to change belt back neck etc more than i change legs depending on buffs. What? Back and neck aren't debatable, waist is only accuracy dependent.
So you would use gorget over portus if acc was capped? Rancorous over caracos during mighty strikes or in abby? Just saying i don't change legs much throughout a single type of content, but hands back neck waist do change. Yes, I use gorget over portus. Yes I use rancorous over cavaros, even in abyssea with blood rage up. Why? Because it's abyssea and I can afk and kill anything with retaliation. If for some reason I'm using mighty strikes Ukko's and not Resolution, then I'd use atheling and barely lose any damage and not waste an inventory slot.
It doesn't work like that.
Well, what I mean is (I think this is what you just said?)...
The percent gain in hits per round is greater when you're going from 0% to 1% than it is when you're going from 50% to 51%, comparatively. That's not what I'm saying at all.
X = DA%, Y = Average hits per round. I know, but it's incorrect. It would be a correct way to say X dps is better than Y dps by Z percent to see whether a piece of gear is worth millions of gil, but it's incorrect for multi hit's linear results.
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Registry 2012-12-15 18:19:40
Right, I was trying to explain that, but did a very very bad job lol.
By Kyler 2012-12-15 19:13:59
This is because people dont understand the difference between Diminishing Returns and Dimnishing Marginal Utility.
I've pretty much given up arguing with people about it. Not like it really matters what you call it.
<3 Wish more people looked at FFXI from an economistic(feel free to use) standpoint.
af2+2 pants for WC onry
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 19:19:11
If its linear, what are you getting out of thunder thunder gorget that beats af3 neck or portus. Not being an ***, i just don't get it.
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 19:20:12
Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2012-12-15 19:22:26
I know, but it's incorrect. It would be a correct way to say X dps is better than Y dps by Z percent to see whether a piece of gear is worth millions of gil, but it's incorrect for multi hit's linear results. That's still mostly a pedantic distinction about language, since the majority of contexts where this comes up are when we're comparing the relative DPS gains of one set of parameters to another.
It's easy to mess up the language and I'd argue that even this quote from you was ambiguous in that regard:
Ramuh.Austar said: The gains from DA are also linear. ...since colloquially people would probably think of "gain" as something relating to DPS rather than the mapping between DA% and hits/round. Based on his post, I'm not even convinced that the guy who +1'd you understood what you meant.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the desire for clarity with this stuff, but if the criticism on clarity isn't clear enough itself people will just end up more confused... :)
Any big changes to our gear sets?
Frankly the only thing I saw was ares+1 as new best upheaval body. I guess it's also the best idle piece.
Legs might be a good ukkos piece.
I currently don't use haste hands but if you did ares hands looks pretty sweet.
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