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Salvage 2.0 gear
By DeathOfSiren 2012-12-14 12:38:02
Bismarck.Azagthothe said: »The point is that using augmented Hecatomb Subligar +1 when your critical hit rate is 10% is going to increase your DPS more than when your critical hit rate is at 46%. Having blood rage and potency up is going to decrease the value of using augmented Hecatomb Subligar +1.
Wow, so you're saying when Blood Rage and Potency are up, it makes more sense to NOT use them? I've always read and been told by quite a few WAR in game that it's only worth going for critical hit rate %+ equipment when you can reach near 50%, and better to not go for it when you can't, and that on most mobs with Ukko's native critical hit rate %, you can usually get near tha 50%.
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2012-12-14 12:44:21
Bismarck.Azagthothe said: »The point is that using augmented Hecatomb Subligar +1 when your critical hit rate is 10% is going to increase your DPS more than when your critical hit rate is at 46%. Having blood rage and potency up is going to decrease the value of using augmented Hecatomb Subligar +1.
Thank you. This is exactly what I've been trying to say, and doing a ***job apparently as only like 3 people have understood. Although Prothe selectively quoting what I said didn't help, I'm sure.
been told by quite a few WAR in game that it's only worth going for critical hit rate %+ equipment when you can reach near 50%
Stop listening to them.
By DeathOfSiren 2012-12-14 12:46:24
Yeah, I think I misread that now. Wow.
By Kyler 2012-12-14 14:19:50
This thread is in the shitter, needs flushing.
 Carbuncle.Anesthesia
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By Carbuncle.Anesthesia 2012-12-14 15:10:54
been told by quite a few WAR in game
I found your problem.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2012-12-14 23:20:34
This thread is in the shitter, needs flushing.
Ignore button on DoS made it much easier to read.
Was looking over the gear and not really seeing much for WAR Rag Res spammage. Ker's body looks like an Armadaberk that traded in the sTP / DA for haste. Might be interesting for some setups. Some of it screamed "Upheavel set".
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 00:30:41
I'm still confused on subligar. I thought crit rate was similar to multi-attack in that the more you have, the less valuable each additional point was. So like war having nutso da in some situations got much less out of adding da than say drk/sam who had much less. So saying that using crit rate gear at high crit rates was less useful than other stats especially as crit dDex go up. The whole subligar only in Abby or with bloodrage seems really counter productive. What am i missing? Or is that just a pile of crap perpetuated by the masses?
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By Bismarck.Altar 2012-12-15 00:38:58
I'm still confused on subligar. I thought crit rate was similar to multi-attack in that the more you have, the less valuable each additional point was. So like war having nutso da in some situations got much less out of adding da than say drk/sam who had much less. So saying that using crit rate gear at high crit rates was less useful than other stats especially as crit dDex go up. The whole subligar only in Abby or with bloodrage seems really counter productive. What am i missing? Or is that just a pile of crap perpetuated by the masses?
You aren't missing anything. You're correct, that was my point from the start of the page, a certain other person spammed a bunch of incorrect crap and just admitted he was wrong.
That said, you should be using it in abyssea not because of the increased crit rate, but because of the increased crit damage you get from atmas.
But beyond that exception you're spot on.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 01:33:07
Abby is a whole different beast anyway, but I'm not talking about Abby. So now I'm curious about legs. Atm i use ogiers for acc, avant +1 if I'm under buffed but hit rate is capped, af2+2 in a high buff situation. Assuming I'm not sitting in jueno doing math, where the hell do are's +1 and hecatomb fit into that, cause 5 ws sets its HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
By DeathOfSiren 2012-12-15 03:17:09
Wow, I was way off. Thought I knew what I was talking about from the group I was getting my information from. Apparently it was wrong information.
I apologize to you Altar for being a douche bag. I got caught up in thinking I was right when I wasn't.
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By Odin.Registry 2012-12-15 03:53:34
Abby is a whole different beast anyway, but I'm not talking about Abby. So now I'm curious about legs. Atm i use ogiers for acc, avant +1 if I'm under buffed but hit rate is capped, af2+2 in a high buff situation. Assuming I'm not sitting in jueno doing math, where the hell do are's +1 and hecatomb fit into that, cause 5 ws sets its HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
Ogier's for uncapped accuracy. <--- for sure.
Avant +1 for capped accuracy but uncapped attack. ---- I'll have to double check how uncapped you actually need to be for these to beat Ares +1. This is mostly going to depend on dDEX.
Relic +2 with warrior's charge up. ---- I never bothered carrying these around with me, 1/5 charge merits and even in high buff situations it's only 1% DA over Avant +1.
Ares +1 for capped accuracy/attack. ---- I'll have to double check... they may not even be worth the inventory slot if they're only for Ukko's. Again, more than likely going to depend on dDEX.
Wow, I was way off. Thought I knew what I was talking about from the group I was getting my information from. Apparently it was wrong information.
I apologize to you Altar for being a douche bag. I got caught up in thinking I was right when I wasn't. 
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 04:14:59
I'm still confused on subligar. I thought crit rate was similar to multi-attack in that the more you have, the less valuable each additional point was. The gains from DA are also linear. The only thing that diminishes DA is QA and TA.
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By Odin.Registry 2012-12-15 04:21:41
I'm still confused on subligar. I thought crit rate was similar to multi-attack in that the more you have, the less valuable each additional point was. The gains from DA are also linear. The only thing that diminishes DA is QA and TA.
When you start from zero, which... you essentially are.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 04:23:36
I'm still confused on subligar. I thought crit rate was similar to multi-attack in that the more you have, the less valuable each additional point was. The gains from DA are also linear. The only thing that diminishes DA is QA and TA.
When you start from zero, which... you essentially are. No, any time at all.
If I have 50% DA, my hit per round is 1.5. With 65% DA, it's 1.65. Doesn't diminish at all. The "Diminishing returns" people talk about is the percent gain of DA from X to Y, not the actual result, which is linear.
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By Odin.Registry 2012-12-15 04:26:07
Well, what I mean is (I think this is what you just said?)...
The percent gain in hits per round is greater when you're going from 0% to 1% than it is when you're going from 50% to 51%, comparatively.
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-12-15 04:27:32
Do people really need to be told the obvious?
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Lakshmi.Raksha
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By Lakshmi.Raksha 2012-12-15 09:21:32
The "Diminishing returns" people talk about is the percent gain of DA from X to Y, not the actual result, which is linear.
This is because people dont understand the difference between Diminishing Returns and Dimnishing Marginal Utility.
I've pretty much given up arguing with people about it. Not like it really matters what you call it.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 10:17:02
1 more da is still 1 more, but adding 1% starting at 0 is far more valuable than adding 1% starting at 40. That's beside the point, I'm just trying to figure out what pieces i can drop, obviously 3% ta would beat 3% da even if war didn't have so much.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 11:23:32
It doesn't work like that.
Well, what I mean is (I think this is what you just said?)...
The percent gain in hits per round is greater when you're going from 0% to 1% than it is when you're going from 50% to 51%, comparatively. That's not what I'm saying at all.
X = DA%, Y = Average hits per round.
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2012-12-15 11:36:53
1 more da is still 1 more, but adding 1% starting at 0 is far more valuable than adding 1% starting at 40. That's beside the point, I'm just trying to figure out what pieces i can drop, obviously 3% ta would beat 3% da even if war didn't have so much.
It's never obvious, you have to calculate it since TA excludes DA.
If your number of hits per round is better with TA then TA is better.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 12:16:14
Assuming you have 26% da as your base. Iirc that's what i have excluding legs. 1.26 attacks per round.
Adding 3% ta would add .09 att/round right, since each adds 3 per 100 attack rounds. 3% da adding .06. 1.35 vs 1.31. I can't see any situation where equal amounts doesn't favor qa > ta > da, especially since ta devalues da even more.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 12:37:50
26% DA, add 3% TA would be 1.3122
26% DA, add 3% DA would be 1.29
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By Bismarck.Altar 2012-12-15 12:40:39
1 more da is still 1 more, but adding 1% starting at 0 is far more valuable than adding 1% starting at 40. That's beside the point, I'm just trying to figure out what pieces i can drop, obviously 3% ta would beat 3% da even if war didn't have so much.
It's never obvious, you have to calculate it since TA excludes DA.
If your number of hits per round is better with TA then TA is better.
When would 3DA ever beat 3TA o.o
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-12-15 12:41:57
Maybe they mean it because of the DA damage+ on relic pants?
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-15 12:42:38
When would 3DA ever beat 3TA o.o It doesn't.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 12:45:35
The gains from DA are also linear. The only thing that diminishes DA is QA and TA.
I've been saying that ***for years, and I always got the "no, it's diminishing returns when you stack it". I hate people lol
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By Phoenix.Suji 2012-12-15 12:46:22
Ogier's for uncapped accuracy. <--- for sure. Just because curveballs are fun, Heca+1 can still be better depending on how much accuracy you need, if you get acc+6 on them (~12 acc total). I'm pretty sure all the comparisons in the WAR gear threads assume you don't have this augment because they actually come out quite good in the spreadsheet.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-15 12:54:19
The da damage on af2+2 doesn't work with ws, so no, other that wc crit rate aug the only thing they have over other legs is the da. As for the whole diminishing returns, i think its just poorly worded. As in, adding 3% from 0 being a larger percent of increase in attacks per round than adding it to say 25% da. Its the same increase in attacks per round, but it is a smaller portion of your attack per round total.
Its still wrong, but it sorta makes sense why they say it
Any big changes to our gear sets?
Frankly the only thing I saw was ares+1 as new best upheaval body. I guess it's also the best idle piece.
Legs might be a good ukkos piece.
I currently don't use haste hands but if you did ares hands looks pretty sweet.
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