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Leaden Salute
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 Odin.Shuinam
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By Odin.Shuinam 2014-04-12 19:15:40
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Anyone heard of any changes to Magic based weaponskills? Their was a report a while back of SE adjusting them and I have not heard about it since. I am about to finish my mythic and want to see if it is even worth gearing LS. Thanks.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-04-13 04:55:13
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Odin.Shuinam said: »
Anyone heard of any changes to Magic based weaponskills? Their was a report a while back of SE adjusting them and I have not heard about it since. I am about to finish my mythic and want to see if it is even worth gearing LS. Thanks.


No they haven't change a thing.
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By Akutenshi 2014-06-12 13:52:13
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SE just released something that shows the modifier is going to be 100 agi now instead of 30 agi. Might be interesting to use now.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-06-12 13:55:19
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Already covered
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By honeycomb 2014-06-13 19:40:45
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What should I be using for this WS to set up for a macro set? Any info be awesome and thank you :)
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By Odin.Blackthanos 2014-10-30 18:35:26
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Hate to necro bump this thread but I didn't want to start up a brand new thread about the same general subject. I've been working on getting my alt an REM weapon. She is on COR 80% of the time so it came down to the Arma or the DP. When I checked her quest and missions status and it's pretty much nonexistent. She would have to do everything from scratch to get the mythic so I decided to go for a 119 Arma. After reading some post in the COR section I hear that LS is a way better weapons skill nowadays compared to WF except under certain circumstances. So my question is if I do the Arma to 119 and quest the LS weapon skill how big of a difference should I expect between doing LS with a 119 Arma and the DP? Is the weapon skill still worth it for me under these circumstances? Thanks in advance.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-10-30 18:48:02
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Odin.Blackthanos said: »
Hate to necro bump this thread but I didn't want to start up a brand new thread about the same general subject. I've been working on getting my alt an REM weapon. She is on COR 80% of the time so it came down to the Arma or the DP. When I checked her quest and missions status and it's pretty much nonexistent. She would have to do everything from scratch to get the mythic so I decided to go for a 119 Arma. After reading some post in the COR section I hear that LS is a way better weapons skill nowadays compared to WF except under certain circumstances. So my question is if I do the Arma to 119 and quest the LS weapon skill how big of a difference should I expect between doing LS with a 119 Arma and the DP? Is the weapon skill still worth it for me under these circumstances? Thanks in advance.


http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/75099

And 30k at 3k tp on normal mobs without a Death Penalty..
 Asura.Darvamos
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By Asura.Darvamos 2014-10-30 18:59:36
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Odin.Blackthanos said: »
Hate to necro bump this thread but I didn't want to start up a brand new thread about the same general subject. I've been working on getting my alt an REM weapon. She is on COR 80% of the time so it came down to the Arma or the DP. When I checked her quest and missions status and it's pretty much nonexistent. She would have to do everything from scratch to get the mythic so I decided to go for a 119 Arma. After reading some post in the COR section I hear that LS is a way better weapons skill nowadays compared to WF except under certain circumstances. So my question is if I do the Arma to 119 and quest the LS weapon skill how big of a difference should I expect between doing LS with a 119 Arma and the DP? Is the weapon skill still worth it for me under these circumstances? Thanks in advance.
Honestly I'd unlock WF via WoE method and work on the mythic if you really wanted REM. Otherwise just unlock WF via WoE and unlock LS via the ws point method and grab another gun. Also mythic 119 gives 30% more dmg but LS is nuts even with a standard 119 (Get one with either **MAB** or MDMG for increased dmg.)
 Valefor.Sapphire
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-10-30 20:22:36
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Odin.Blackthanos said: »
Hate to necro bump this thread but I didn't want to start up a brand new thread about the same general subject. I've been working on getting my alt an REM weapon. She is on COR 80% of the time so it came down to the Arma or the DP. When I checked her quest and missions status and it's pretty much nonexistent. She would have to do everything from scratch to get the mythic so I decided to go for a 119 Arma. After reading some post in the COR section I hear that LS is a way better weapons skill nowadays compared to WF except under certain circumstances. So my question is if I do the Arma to 119 and quest the LS weapon skill how big of a difference should I expect between doing LS with a 119 Arma and the DP? Is the weapon skill still worth it for me under these circumstances? Thanks in advance.

For the love of altana dont waste the time or gil 119'ing an armageddon.
Death penalty or don't bother with RME and just stick with a Vanir Gun and just unlock wildfire+leaden and 5/5 Last Stand if you wanna pewpew that badly.
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 Sylph.Jeanpaul
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2014-10-30 21:30:29
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I've got a Vanir Gun and a Doomsday, and I'm debating on trying to get WS damage +5 or 6% as an augment on Doomsday as a possible means to retire Vanir Gun. Think it's worthwhile? At the very least, it would make for a stronger Last Stand oriented gun.

On that note, does the WS damage+% apply to both hits on Last Stand?
 Siren.Seiri
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By Siren.Seiri 2014-10-30 21:38:24
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
I've got a Vanir Gun and a Doomsday, and I'm debating on trying to get WS damage +5 or 6% as an augment on Doomsday as a possible means to retire Vanir Gun. Think it's worthwhile? At the very least, it would make for a stronger Last Stand oriented gun.

On that note, does the WS damage+% apply to both hits on Last Stand?

Usually flat % increases apply only to the first hit, but if its a fTP increase it would apply to both.
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By Odin.Blackthanos 2014-10-30 21:38:31
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WOW, I didn't really think it was that bad of a weapon..lol. I read some post where they ran a few of the top guns through the spreadsheet and that the DP,Arma, and Vanir came out on top in different situations.(Vanir was the best avg situation gun I think because it performed decently in most situation but didn't actually excel in them.) I would have thought that having the LS weapon skill(geared properly) on an ilevel 119 gun would have been a good way to go. I see you have both DP and Arma so I do value your opinion since you have some practical hands on experience with them, but I would have honestly thought that it wouldn't be that big of a difference.
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By Odin.Blackthanos 2014-10-30 21:43:35
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Also, let me add that I'm honestly not looking forward to doing a mythic on my alt. It was my wife's character and she loathed missions and quest. The money for the alex I'm fine with but good lord all the missions, quest,and assaults. She literally did NONE, zero, zilch. Assault rank is private..ughhh! Tokens, ichor = 0 see where I'm going with this..lol. Still want and honest opinion though, as this is a signifigant project to undertake either way.(fyi I have the 1500 hmp's already)
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2014-10-30 21:55:42
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I suppose the 2nd best for a Leaden Salute gun would be a Doomsday augmented with WS damage and Magic Attack, and since it's Ex but not Rare, you could have another augmented to focus more on shooting/Last Stand. Or am I forgetting Deathlocke?

For now, I think I'll just stick with carrying Vanir and Doomsday.
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By Odin.Blackthanos 2014-10-30 22:03:49
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
I suppose the 2nd best for a Leaden Salute gun would be a Doomsday augmented with WS damage and Magic Attack, and since it's Ex but not Rare, you could have another augmented to focus more on shooting/Last Stand. Or am I forgetting Deathlocke?

For now, I think I'll just stick with carrying Vanir and Doomsday.

I thought the Doomsday was mainly used when you melee for TP because of the delay? I really don't use my alt like that. She does rolls and stays in the background most of the time so any TP she gets is ranged and/or regain.
 Valefor.Sapphire
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-10-30 23:01:38
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Odin.Blackthanos said: »
WOW, I didn't really think it was that bad of a weapon..lol. I read some post where they ran a few of the top guns through the spreadsheet and that the DP,Arma, and Vanir came out on top in different situations.(Vanir was the best avg situation gun I think because it performed decently in most situation but didn't actually excel in them.) I would have thought that having the LS weapon skill(geared properly) on an ilevel 119 gun would have been a good way to go. I see you have both DP and Arma so I do value your opinion since you have some practical hands on experience with them, but I would have honestly thought that it wouldn't be that big of a difference.

Arma isnt a bad weapon, situationally its good, but I think the few 119 armageddon owners out there are alittle annoyed that empyreans in general are still a bit weak in the RME foodchain.

If you have the metal sitting around and love cor that much, and you have no other use for it then just make it.
Somewhere a bard or paladin will be crying you used 1500hmp on a cor gun hehe.

I'm just kinda shocked that someone would make an armageddon ( i still want to 90->119 mine but its so low priority since I have a DP already and im working on other RMEs)
 Leviathan.Draylo
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2014-10-30 23:02:56
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My Almace 119 sits and collect dust, hopefully SE adds something special for them in the next RME upgrades.
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-10-30 23:25:34
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They just need to make dross/cinder super plentiful so everyone can run around in a red afterglow, that would balance empyreans! :P lol
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By Odin.Blackthanos 2014-10-30 23:31:21
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Leviathan.Draylo said: »
My Almace 119 sits and collect dust, hopefully SE adds something special for them in the next RME upgrades.

And that's one of the other things that's been on my mind. WF was the go to WS for COR at one point and LS wasn't really that good a WS then SE made a change and BAM everyone loves LS. SE changes things so much faster now than ever before, so who's to say what's around the corner? WF might get a boost to 100% and it's back in the game again. Now I understand you can't make a choice today off of what "might" happen tomorrow but it's something to at least consider. I started collecting the HMP's a couple of months ago as a sort of "Hey I might make an Arma for my mule" type of thing and the next thing I knew I had 1500. Now I'm at 56/60 riftdross so it feels like my time is running out for me to make a commitment to the choice of weapon for her. In all honesty I know the Arma isn't "the best" gun out there at the moment, but I just finished a Burtgang and I won't lie it took a lot out of me.(and I had all my missions done and I had a decent amount of tokens and ichor already) So I'm not really thrilled at the thought of doing another mythic. At the same time I don't want to waste a ton of gil on a sub par weapon either. For what it cost I 'd like to feel like it was at least in the top 2 weapons you can have if you mainly get TP via ranged attack.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2014-10-30 23:54:26
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Odin.Blackthanos said: »
I thought the Doomsday was mainly used when you melee for TP because of the delay? I really don't use my alt like that. She does rolls and stays in the background most of the time so any TP she gets is ranged and/or regain.
That's a good point, yeah, I pretty much only melee for TP and just WS unless it's too dangerous. It is possible to get Snapshot or Rapid Shot as augments though, if that makes a difference for you.
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-10-31 00:00:39
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I've seen a doomsday with 15mab and 5 snapshot, but I don't wanna think of how much gil in +2s it would take.

Armageddon has a respectable delay on it, Death penalty is kinda annoying with 480 delay (dont even bother to x-hit build).
Death Penalty riding tripleshot with AM3 up and 3 bullets fire in one go and each proc triple damage is a beautiful thing tho.
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 Carbuncle.Skudo
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By Carbuncle.Skudo 2014-10-31 00:26:49
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Looking at WS damage only, those AGI+20...

* ...add 20 * (2 + fTP) base damage (as in before magic damage modifiers) to Leaden Salute.
* ...add 20 * 7.5 = 150 base damage to Wildfire.
* ...add 0.85 * 20 = 17 base damage to Last Stand.

Totally ignoring those implied RACC+15. Because.

To make math easier (it's past 0600...), I'll just assume MAB+100 in gear and using Leaden Salute at 1200 + 250 TP. Why 1200? I'm not logged on to check where Leaden Salute + pewpew would put me at, TP-wise, so I'm generous here.

Putting Armageddon in the gun slot against Vanir Gun (the most viable non-RME pewpewboom gun, I think) does this:

Armageddon: Base damage + 20 * (2 + 5.215) = Base damage + 20 * 7.215 = Base damage + 144.3
Vanir Gun: Base damage * 1.05 = Base damage + 0.05 * Base damage

2887 base damage is required to make Vanir Gun better for Leaden Salute.

2887 = 2 * dAGI + 5.215 * (2.45 * (152 + 119 - 99) + AGI)
2887 = 2 * dAGI + 5.215 * AGI + 2197.601
689.399 = 2 * dAGI + 5.215 * AGI

You literally have to have really low AGI (for today's standards) to have Armageddon beat Vanir Gun on Leaden Salute.

Shortened math for Wildfire:

3000 = 2 * dAGI + 3.3 * AGI + 2317.7
682.3 = 2 * dAGI + 3.3 * AGI

It's a lot closer for Wildfire, but more often than not, Vanir Gun beats Armageddon here, too.

I'm too dozy for Last Stand now, but making up for the remaining 7 base damage that Vanir Gun is behind seems to be more likely than not, if we pewpew for TP.

Does AM change anything? Most likely not, because getting AM means you "wasted" damage on Wildfire instead of Leaden Salute or Last Stand already. ODD would have to actually catch up that damage first.

Long story short: I wouldn't make an Armageddon i119 as of now. Especially if you want your gun to be among the top two weapons for pewpew.

[rant]
Not that it affected Wildfire (or Leaden Salute) damage here, but SE overdid it a bit with keeping i119 Emps weak, just because of ODD. If they changed Empyrean AM3 duration to something long, maybe things might be better, but right now, I cannot think of one single i119 Emp that's significantly better than other much more easily obtained options.

Oh, well. At least my mannequin has something to play with while I'm gone...
[/rant]
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By Odin.Blackthanos 2014-10-31 00:36:33
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Thank you for that detailed reply. Also thanks for the others replies before it. I guess I have a lot to think about. For now I'm going to get the last few riftdross I needed just for general purposes but I'm going to hold on to everything in the meantime and put some effort into the getting her the Vanir gun as a temp option until I either come to a conclusion I can live with or SE does something that makes the choice easier for me.
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By Asura.Hoshiku 2014-10-31 11:38:48
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Does arma not get bonus dmg when using wf? I'd still agree that dp is the better choice between the two.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-31 11:46:28
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Asura.Hoshiku said: »
Does arma not get bonus dmg when using wf? I'd still agree that dp is the better choice between the two.

Nope, only aftermath.
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 Shiva.Eightball
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By Shiva.Eightball 2015-02-04 12:13:54
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Recently leveled cor and have Vanir knife I use for WF and soon LS but I also have the WKR dagger with macc and mdmg augs on it but was reading that Mdmg is not as good as MAB for magic WSs wondering if it would be better to switch to the +10 MAB instead.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-02-04 12:22:26
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Shiva.Eightball said: »
Recently leveled cor and have Vanir knife I use for WF and soon LS but I also have the WKR dagger with macc and mdmg augs on it but was reading that Mdmg is not as good as MAB for magic WSs wondering if it would be better to switch to the +10 MAB instead.

Yes, MAB is better.
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By Ragnarok.Haorhu 2015-02-04 12:24:52
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Shiva.Eightball said: »
Recently leveled cor and have Vanir knife I use for WF and soon LS but I also have the WKR dagger with macc and mdmg augs on it but was reading that Mdmg is not as good as MAB for magic WSs wondering if it would be better to switch to the +10 MAB instead.


Depend how its your MAB leadean salute based AGI/Int/GUN/DMG/MAB

depend on your gears set for leaden salute .. cor are full of mab option weapon/gears so mab+10 on atoyac are useless (My point of view) ^^
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-02-04 12:27:51
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If you're /DNC and meleeing, which you should be MOST of the time, OAT/MAB Atoyac is one of the best offhand options for COR.
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By Shiva.Eightball 2015-02-04 12:30:39
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Also while I got you guys here, WF and LS don't suffer any distance penalties like reg ranged WSs right?
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