By Diabolos.Yugl 2012-12-02 23:44:53
1. There is more to the paragraph than what you quoted. Furthermore, your continued attempt to reference Gungnir's story is pointless on two levels. First, I never referenced Gungnir specifically outside of the shape/type of weapon. So much for Gungnir's tale (And quite frankly, Odin's Gungnir isn't the same one we obtain, so that was a done deal since TOAU). Second, you're ignoring the fact that I'm pointing to a general image of DRG that can be construed as associating with lightning on multiple levels. Sound ridiculous? Welcome to your argument that SB "works" for MNK and NIN. Want to argue that DRG doesn't get Shock Spikes natively while they get traits? See Accuracy on WHM, Enmity on RNG, DT on WAR, and ATT on BST. None of these are natural traits of the respective class, yet their weapons have the respective bonus.
2. Yes, continue to say you don't care while passively suggesting they're superior weapons and your second paragraph demonstrates that quite clearly. From start to finish, that paragraph is nothing but a bloated version of the sentence "SB is better than Shock Spikes because you actively apply SB trait." So what? Still a trashy trait within this environment.
The fact of the matter is that if you're going to argue for the deficiency of Gungnir compared to other relics, you need to do better than "Wah, this makes no sense based on a perception of DRG." I already made a post displaying how shoddy aftermath is for most relics and the 20s duration really isn't helping. The passive trait of Gungnir (DEF down) is superior to the majority of other relics (ATT down, Poison, ACC down, Wind DOT, Para, and by your own terms (Passive+Conditional), Counter). Is the overwriting of angon an issue? Of course; I doubt many would take issue with that. However, the original post went beyond stating that simple issue. Instead, you went on this tangent nonsense about the weapon not following your perception of DRG. This was countered by showing some of the "good" weapons don't necessary highlight a perception of the related class and that you can construe a perception of DRG that does associate with Shock Spikes. So then you tried to safe-face by arguing that the weapon doesn't offer much utility. Well that obviously backfired because SB (and others tied to lame WS given the 20s duration) isn't exactly trail-blazing. So now you're trying to rely on this "passive and conditional" argument that's utter BS because if the effect were extensive (Say 500DMG/Spike), those traits wouldn't be an issue.
In short, the only credible argument, the one unopposed, is that the DEF down of Gungnir should not overwrite Angon. Beyond that, SE needs to adjust DRG before adjusting the weapon.