Another Atma Question

so there's no real consensus as far as RR vs. GH?

can we get a mathologist up in this piece

Pfft. Get to it Sevourn.

Just use RR/VV/Apoc and you will be epic, until then, you can use Kparser and do it yourself! whoot whoot! I did it a while back but don't have the info anymore or I would gladly share it!

If you want that extra Subtle Blow GH can be nice, the extra Crit is what makes most people want to choose GH. And it might be better if you are not using +2 gear for TP/WS. I know personally I'm close to cap on crit hit%/dmg without this atma so the Double Attack and Regain makes my WS that much more frequent.

That's my 2 cents.

Really? I thought crit rate capped at like 60%, or is that crit dmg?

+the gear = what?! I'm not doubting you as you have Ejin in your LS for some great math, he always has numbers to back up his work. Even when I talk to him in /tell he's got some sorta numbers!

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents because I have to repeat what someone has previously said. I'm shocked how many people try to replace Apoc with something "better" - nothing really compares except for RR.

i meant to say VV vs. GH or DD, i know RR>all, brain fart i guess ><

Sample size on that test was rather small, a later test showed otherwise.

For calculation DA TA and QA increases in swing i made this

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/20145/simple-haste-vs-da-ta-qa-dot-calculator/

just be warned it does not take crazy number into considerations (like 233% DA DUH)

but if you feed it real numbers it will calculate it correctly

In defense of using VV over GH the regain can help a Ukon WAR/SAM maintain a 5 hit build as it is pretty difficult to reach the necessary 39 STP.

Anyone tried RR/Apoc/SQ or Plaguebringer? It puts me at a pretty solid 5 hit build and capped haste without using alot of -stat STP gear:



Not having to use tactical mantle/hoard ring/white tath/almah gives you back 35 ATK 5 DA 1 Haste and 11 STR which makes up for alot of what you lose from not using VV. Don't have to use Carbonara either.

This isn't really true for WAR...

Because of the fact that triple attack and double attack aren't mutually exclusive (i.e. if one doesn't proc the other may) they may both proc on the same hit. If that's the case triple attack overwrites double attack. So instead of being let's say DA rate is 50% and TA rate is 15% (nice round, realistic numbers).

It would look something like this:
100 swings
50 DA procs
15 TA procs
7.5 (rounding down to 7) DA's overwritten by TA
100 + 50 - 7 + 30 = 173... so total 73 extra attacks

So instead of getting 30 extra swings out of the Apoc you're really only getting 23 extra swings. (Which is still very good.)

Disclaimer: I'm not saying Apoc isn't good, I'm stating that triple attack on WAR isn't always as effective as adding 2 attacks. Sometimes it's only adding 1. Which still makes it a bamf atma.

i was answering the question two posts above mine, at which point people weren't specifically talking about war. i thought it was pretty clear that i was assuming both 0 da and 0 ta initially.

Understood, my mistake.

Some people are finding it looks like SE moved the cap on Crit hit damage from 50% to 100%. If this is the case would RR/AoA/SS or RR/VV/SS be the way to go over using RR/AoA/VV?

yea where the math gurus be at?

I haven't had a chance to parse anything yet, been so busy lately. But yesterday I was fighting some Hedjedjet with a friend decided to try out RR/GH/SS on MNK for tanking this NM. I noticed a significant increase in my Ascetic's Fury WS. This is just Eyeballing but they were all Averaging 2500+ with spikes as high as ~4500. So after that we had a couple Orthus Pops so I went and swapped my Atma to w/e his atma is (brother wolf?) along with RR/GH. Forgot to change atmas after fight to do another Hedjedjet and my WS numbers were waaaaaay down from the fight before. Averaging around 1700 with spikes around 3300. Now this was all eyeballing but I'm sure SS is going to be a significant piece of Atma in the times to come. I'll see if I can get some parses here soon for exact numbers.

I'm more interested in the general perfect Ukon setup... right now with VV/RR/Apoc I spike up to 7200-7400... I'm curious if the added crit damage from SS outdoes either VV's 50 STR mod + da + conveniently auto starting fights with 200+ TP or even GH's crit rate (obvious benefits).

It's a shame to give up VV as I definitely prefer it over GH... but if SS would let me spike up to say... 8500-9000... why wouldn't I want to try that out lol.

I also have a perfect Revenant Fists+2 Monk (missing Hachiryu and obviously Vereth) so if this applies to that as well, any help is appreciated.

Edit: and 3k crits (aftermath+af3+2) would be pretty pimp too

for my WAR i still prefer just to go RR VV Sea Daugther/Sundering Slash, simple idea to pull out WS whit out Tp on NMs and hey slow isnt that bad in some situation.
TE/Exp Stuff VV RR Apoc works fine for me neva had any dmg problems.

I tested SS/RR/Apoc on worms, ODD crits were doing 1.8k, and the highest Ukko's I did was 7.4k.

ODD Set proc crits are pretty rare, but obviously 1.8k x2 = 3.6k for 1~2 hits. Thats like two free raging rushes.

However I find it hard to give up the 2/tick regain from VV to be honest because I spend most of my time walking around between fights or waiting for red proc and not simply zerging something instantly. Having Sekkanoki ready with TP once I see that red to kill something that has 60% HP (not common) instantly is pretty nice.

^ Also, VV > SS for Fell Cleave without Mighty Strikes up, so there's that.

yea I was talking more of a general NM style atma setup. I wouldn't stack crit dmg for cleaving just cause well... things die so quickly anyways.

I think people generally underestimate the usefulness of having VV regain in between fights. It's worth sacrificing the 1% overall damage (if that or any at all) I'd do versus GH just for the convenience alone. The response I usually get is "yea well I can just tp build on a regular mob"... but why waste time with that?

I guess I'll just have to try out SS instead of VV myself. Haven't parsed in years so where can I find a working one?

you're vastly underestimating DoT damage in favor of pretty spike damage.

its more to not stress the healer, reason is not to feed Tp on NMs and still get a nice dmg-output(run in WS run away)