Another Atma Question

Not really. Melees have there set bonuses proc alot more than a mages to begin with. On top of that stacking whatever trait it is to even allow that to proc is more beneficial.

What blm is going to stack conserve mp gear? On top of that even when it does proc it's weak compared to other jobs procs. How does blu stack with CA/BA? Idk if anyone has really tested it since the general proc rate is so low that it would take hours just to get 1 proc with those JAs up.

While say nin... yeah it's always dual weilding. Wars? Yeah they double attack alot more than you nuke. Same with dncs thfs rngs etc. And that's just normally. Those traits are good to boost. Not to mention just haste and such makes them happen more often

And then at least the proccing will always matter. With my luck I'll proc during a buff or debuff lol

It does suck, but the chance of it happening anyways would be ~1% or less so it's not a major problem.

Actually doing the math you could hit 30k SATA rudra's if it proc'd lol. Which is flipping rediculous without brew

Why VV RR Apoc instead of RR GH Apoc / RR GH DD / RR SQ GH.
What am I missing that makes VV worth the atma slot?

Unless Scorpion Queen lowers your XHit, the Crit Hit rate is nothing compared to VV.
GH is a good defensive atma, I use it a fair amount when I'm solo tanking. No idea what DD is, which should say something about its usefulness.

Pretty sure WAR isn't autocapping fSTR in TP gear without a STR atma. Regardless, the DA and attack from STR are definitely applicable to TP phase damage.

Wow I never knew there was much to debate when going for best DD atmas for war.

RR VV Apoc. Haven't found any combo that works better.

DD is Dark Depths, +20% crit, 10 eva, and I think 10 agi. WAR's Fstr cap is in the range, using a Widowmaker, of 180. My TP gear is Pole, Ravager,s Veloce, Ravager's, Ravager's, Brutal, Ares, Ravager's +2, rajas, keen, atheling, bullwhip, ravager's+2, ravager's +2. Short of -Holla/mea/Dem, I cap out fstr during TP phase using cruor buffs and the aforementioned setup, and I top it off with yellow/red curry. I was thinking that with a proper setup SQ RR and GH would be better, but I haven't cared about STP inside abyssea since I get hit often enough to take my xhit down a notch. Although I see the value of capping fstr inside those 3 zones, I think hitting 550-640 damage is better than having a hit of 260 more often than 230. The DA would see diminished DoT values from the lower crit as well. For apoc it's like, I could WS 15% more often and do 1.8k, or I could WS 15% less and do double to triple the damage. I use apoc for the RR effect, but once I obtain a twilight mail I'll switch it out for a, most likely, properly geared SQ set.

So my question goes back to, who initially figured VV was better than GH or DD, and why exactly (if this is the case) is this the case? (Not including SQ because it requires xhit and I'm not interested in this, though I believe RR SQ and DD / GH would beat RR GH DD with a lower xhit)

Another note is that Wiki reports it as 5%DA, but I think some other testing showed Major as being 10% DA, which makes more sense compared to the other stats.

Might have been answered before. Does GH stack with retaliation?

they don't stack because they don't do the same thing. retaliation requires you to get hit. a counter means you take no damage. increasing one will have no impact on the other.

I love how people still completely underestimate Apoc as a viable Atma outside of re-raise.

Atma of the Harvester and VV are both ranked as "DA: Major"
That wiki reports one as 10%, and the other as 5% just exemplifies what I was talking about earlier.

I get this all the time.. even people in my LS after I've explained to them in private via /tell.. MNK rather use VV because they said it does more DMG.. smh

VV/RR/Apoc are my favorites for Pure DD :S

I've had to do the same thing over and over and over to some people. I don't understand.me too.

That's my issue with VV though. Several people seem to think it's best for pure DD, but you're basically adding STR to already capped fstr values and limiting your crit hit rate to 60% of the time. The DA won't account for the 20% of the time your hits won't do 400+ extra damage.

Now if you're uncapped by all means use it, but if you're uncapped in abyssea in TP gear then using SA should net more from the bonus attack capping at your newly reached fstr value.

Ah my bad I meant for WAR, for THF I've been Told RR/GH/AoA is great.

If you parsed your dmg using those ***atmas listed harvester/GH/etc you will suck against a WAR using VV/RR/Apoc. I'm always breaking 3k on average with Raging Rush and spiking up to 4.5k even on heroes' mobs.

Learn to use parser and you will find out how bad you suck.

I'm sorry, I suppose that I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was: If counter fails, does it still have a chance to retaliate, or are they mutually exclusive?

I parsed them very marginal like you said, and for tanking situations where you don't wanna feed TP GH is great for the AGI factor, but VV still comes out on top by a small number.

19 shells left on my Lv80 ukon, I can't wait to share those Ukko's numbers soon~!

So explain why apoc is 2x 15% and not just 15% straight melee dmg? I think I missed something.

Anything that isn't in a hero's zone is such a joke now when it comes to damage taken. For example killing NMs for KI to pop Briareus.

Raging Rush->Raging Rush->+Frag skill chain can take off 30-40% of it's HP depending on how how they spike and resists.

I mess around with club/joytoy sometimes when I need to sub NIN
VV/RR/AoA gives me good results with true strike lol. Hit about 3600 on Sobek but I guess I didn't screen shot it :S

Also smacked some Bluffalos with it for good damage. I usually don't sub NIN unless we need NIN procs for seals though so True Strike kinda sucks unless your getting a 2nd hit in from Dual weilding.


Honestly as long as Razed Ruins is equipped you'll destroy anything in older zones regardless of your other two atmas.

VV/RR/AoA Seem best.I love the regain personally since you gain TP just running around.

each triple attack is two extra hits. so every 100 hits, you get 30 extra hits going from 0 to 15% triple attack.

Thanks. I was thinking about triple atk % the same way as I do double atk %, they are clearly different. This will change my opinion of AoA as just an atma that makes you lazy.