Tachi: Kaiten Gearsets Please

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Tachi: Kaiten gearsets please
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 Ragnarok.Baconweave
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By Ragnarok.Baconweave 2010-02-02 14:31:18
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I know this is probably on here somewhere but I'm hoping to have my Amano soonish and i was wondering what Kaiten gearsets do you Amano holders use for the different situations?
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2010-02-02 14:35:46
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You probably won't get many amano owners here, but the general consensus is str/attack, as Kaiten doesn't get the same attack boost as gekko. I would imagine pieces like SCNM orc head, Byrnie+1, Usu legs, Rutter sabatons, ect being useful.
If you make up a hypothetical set, I could probably make suggestions based on my knowledge.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-02-02 14:43:51
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Amano/Grip/---/BTath
Gnadbohd's/Gorget/Bushi or Triumph/Brutal
Byrnie+1/Alky/Flame/Rajas
Cerberus+1/Warwolf/Usukane/Rutter Sabatons

Would probably be pretty good, idk bro im drk
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-02-02 14:44:51
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I know an amano user that used to post sometimes. Funny thing is after getting the amano and getting into a big endgame ls he mostly quit lol
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-02-02 14:45:21
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Or maybe Hachiryu Legs, HMM
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2010-02-02 14:46:25
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Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Amano/Grip/---/BTath
Gnadbohd's/Gorget/Bushi or Triumph/Brutal
Byrnie 1/Alky/Flame/Rajas
Cerberus 1/Warwolf/Usukane/Rutter Sabatons

Would probably be pretty good, idk bro im drk
Seems about right
 Caitsith.Ilolatyou
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By Caitsith.Ilolatyou 2010-02-02 14:48:09
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The only possible improvement to this set that I can see, would be Gnadbhod's Helm.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-02-02 14:52:16
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Poor Mezraq :(
 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2010-02-02 14:56:20
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Caitsith.Ilolatyou said:
The only possible improvement to this set that I can see, would be Gnadbhod's Helm.

We really need some new belts, is that crap really still the best choice for WS when not needing acc?

Ya Its what I use but I just figure there must be something better out there by now.
 Bismarck.Aryden
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By Bismarck.Aryden 2010-02-02 15:10:42
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If Kaiten can crit Maat's cap > Gnadbhod's Helm, otherwise Gnad's
 Ragnarok.Kiyashi
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By Ragnarok.Kiyashi 2010-02-02 15:11:54
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Caitsith.Ilolatyou said:


The only possible improvement to this set that I can see, would be Gnadbhod's Helm.

^ this. You can use foragers if you can't afford Cerb mantle+1 and get Gnadbhod's helm and your all set.
 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2010-02-02 15:13:08
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I think if you have a relic and those pants you can afford a cerb +1 lol
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2010-02-02 15:13:46
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Bismarck.Aryden said:
If Kaiten can crit Maat's cap > Gnadbhod's Helm, otherwise Gnad's
Unless forced crit (sneak attack, mighty strikes, ect), only WS' that can crit say "chance to crit varies w/ TP" or something along those lines.
 Bismarck.Aryden
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By Bismarck.Aryden 2010-02-02 15:37:24
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I still do not believe that in anyway. There is no reason (Non-critable) ws vary so greatly in damage even with the random multiplier. Prime example, averaging 2100 sidewinders on birds, and with the same buffs, at the same distance with the same food, getting 2880's every few... Yet it's not crittable. Again, we can do all of the math we want and try to extrapolate stats and theoretical equations all we want, but until SE comes out and says "This is the way it is"... I've run the numbers on my ratt's, there isnt any other explanation for the spiked increase in damage.

Besides, I am not trying to start any kind of argument, and I do not have an Amano, but I do know 4-5 people that do, and they all prefer Maat's (which funny enough, all but 1 has) over Gnad's
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-02-02 16:16:13
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That difference is probably just the huge range in pdif (which isn't 100% known at this point either).
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2010-02-02 16:22:53
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Bismarck.Aryden said:
I still do not believe that in anyway. There is no reason (Non-critable) ws vary so greatly in damage even with the random multiplier. Prime example, averaging 2100 sidewinders on birds, and with the same buffs, at the same distance with the same food, getting 2880's every few... Yet it's not crittable. Again, we can do all of the math we want and try to extrapolate stats and theoretical equations all we want, but until SE comes out and says "This is the way it is"... I've run the numbers on my ratt's, there isnt any other explanation for the spiked increase in damage.

Besides, I am not trying to start any kind of argument, and I do not have an Amano, but I do know 4-5 people that do, and they all prefer Maat's (which funny enough, all but 1 has) over Gnad's
Show me a full critted asuran and I'll be convinced.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-02-02 16:27:12
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Bahamut.Raenryong said:
That difference is probably just the huge range in pdif (which isn't 100% known at this point either).
Even going from min pdif to max pdif + the full +5% random at the end wouldn't account for the range he described.
 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2010-02-02 16:31:24
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@aryden.
Add in things like dia 3 on one ws and not the next and different roll numbers dark knights roll.

I love how people give so little information and just throw out random numbers, and wanna fight well known facts with them as if eyeing ***up is good ground for arguement.
 Bismarck.Aryden
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By Bismarck.Aryden 2010-02-02 17:52:31
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No, Max. I tend to merit with the same people on a regular basis when i need buffer, the Rdm doesnt bother with Dia, the birds tend to die too fast to make it worthwhile and we generally have 2 brds, not brd +cor.
Quote:
That difference is probably just the huge range in pdif (which isn't 100% known at this point either).

This i could believe. but the dif would have to cap higher than it supposedly does.

And no one i know has ever seen asuran fists crit, but youre telling me that you have never seen a ws that you have used that doesnt have "crit" in the desription do far more dmg than it does regularly? somehow i cant believe that. What i can believe is that SE in all their glory *** with us and has made different ws's act differently, which is why our calculations are always getting tweaked cause what works for 1 type of weapon doesnt always work for another. re: melee delay vs ranged delay, 2h melee acc vs 1h vs racc etc. There are too many variances to be able to blanketly say "all of this is that".

All i am pointing out is that:
A) we are continually revamping the dmg calculations WE cmae up with to fit the numbers we put out.
B) We still dont know everything.

So again, i do not discount a single thing until Se comes right out and say "this is how it works"

To illustrate our ignorance the following link shows even more that what we assume, changes:

Dmg
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By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2010-02-02 17:56:00
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I'll take tried and tested advice over yours Aryden tyvm.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2010-02-02 17:57:07
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aryden said:
I know there is overwhelming scientific evidence that the universe is billions of years old, but rly guys its only 6000 years old.
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By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2010-02-02 17:58:41
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lol
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-02-02 18:02:16
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Quote:
To illustrate our ignorance the following link shows even more that what we assume, changes:

This isn't against you, but that link sort of exaggerates things. meleepdif_max has always been cRatio x1.2 and stuff; the only real thing that has changed are the pdif values themselves (which have been different to our previous model since the 2handed patch and haven't changed anything in terms of how we apply the damage formulae) and the Ratio capping thing is newish information (at least explicitly) but again, doesn't revolutionise anything.
 Bismarck.Aryden
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By Bismarck.Aryden 2010-02-02 18:08:25
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Completely agree, and thank you for being understanding, my point is, we came up with the calculations to make them fit what we see. That doesnt make them correct, that just makes the answer correct. I do actually love the fact that SE leaves pretty much everything up to us to figure out, but at the same time, we're not always right either. And i will be the first to say, there could be numerous other explanations as to why the dmg variance is higher than calculations say it should be, not just "oh it was a crit" but again, data driven assumptions are still assumptions.

If i can get any of these damn parsers to work on vista Ult. 64 bit, i'd be a much happier camper.
 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2010-02-02 18:19:13
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Well thats the only thing I could think of. Im stumped myself than but I wouldnt jump to conclusions that it was a crit.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-02-02 18:19:22
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What you say is very true, and that's actually what a lot of real life scientific equations are: simply equations which so happen to satisfy experimental data. There could be an unknown variable which we are not aware of, but it is unlikely given how many people weaponskill regularly compared to how many reports there are of freak spike damages, that it would be in line with a critical hit.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make since you're not asserting your opinion as fact. I'm going to say that on the basis of what the community currently knows that you are wrong, even though you may not be, or there may be another term involved. However, since there is so limited (if any) evidence to the contrary of this community knowledge and a potentially huge sample size of people finding this theory fits their observations, I am forced to uphold my side as "fact".

If that makes any sense...
 Sylph.Sindri
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By Sylph.Sindri 2010-02-02 18:19:39
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Byrnie+1 is definately huge for it, and the SCNM head like said is impossible to beat even by maat's because of the attack bonus.
 
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 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2010-02-02 18:24:22
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@ Mab the augment is 10 acc 5 attack.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2010-02-02 18:24:45
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Your joking right?

That's not even close to being the best Kaiten set.

Amano/Pole/.../Btath
Orc/Breeze/Bushi/Brutal
Bry+1/alky/Tri+1/Rajas
Cerb+1/Warwolf(cool aug)/Hachi/Rutter OR Retsu from ANNM with 3str 5att aug
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