Yet Another SAM Gear Advice Thread

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Yet another SAM gear advice thread
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 Asura.Humtum
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By Asura.Humtum 2009-12-25 05:07:36
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>_> if you had a cerb+1 you would be crazy not to full time it
 Hades.Exion
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By Hades.Exion 2009-12-25 05:08:44
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Asura.Humtum said:
>_> if you had a cerb 1 you would be crazy not to full time it
You are wrong and a amateur for such thinking. /sarcasm....
 Hades.Stefanos
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By Hades.Stefanos 2009-12-25 05:10:22
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Shiva.Nightraid said:
Hades.Stefanos said:
Hades.Exion said:
and you use life belt on your tanking set for paladin

Would you rather I fulltime a Warwolf Belt? I didn't realize PLDs didn't need accuracy.

This is a joke? lol `~`

I'll admit my PLD isn't that great, it needs lots of work, but I would rather use accuracy+10 > enmity+ for melee. I can always macro in enmity for JAs.
 Asura.Humtum
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By Asura.Humtum 2009-12-25 05:10:37
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argh.... another person who thinks that crappy back piece has a good use
 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-12-25 05:10:50
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Hades.Stefanos said:
Hades.Exion said:
and you use life belt on your tanking set for paladin

Would you rather I fulltime a Warwolf Belt? I didn't realize PLDs didn't need accuracy.

I think his point is, the set makes no sense.

It is some combination of Shield skill and blood tanking, but has a brutal and life belt.

Either you want to be using buckler earring and an HP belt for blood tanking.

Or you want to be using Homam/Dusk, swift, acc rings and Hauby for a real atonement build.

The life belt in there isn't going to get you close to capped acc on any thing (baring campaign mobs) and even if it is, with 0 haste you will never build TP and any meaningful speed.
 Asura.Humtum
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By Asura.Humtum 2009-12-25 05:11:28
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why not use a swift belt for more haste and acc
 Hades.Stefanos
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By Hades.Stefanos 2009-12-25 05:15:34
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Thanks for the pointers, I'll give those a shot instead and see how that fares.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-12-25 05:25:33
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Ugh. This topic is painful.

[u]Ace's Helm[/u]

This is only really good for a meat build. Meat builds are only better than Pizza builds if you are using Red Curry and with high accuracy (or cap 95% accuracy with full Haste).

While it is not an outdated piece by any means, the Pizza update did kill off a lot of the utility of this piece.

[u]Osode vs Hauby+1[/u]

Osode most of the time. If you are getting Minuets on most HNMs, you're probably still good with Osode. Byrnie +1 is the best choice when Attack is not capped.

[u]Y/G/K[/u]

95% accuracy in any conceivable non-debuffed situation. Deal with it.

[u]Cerberus Mantle +1[/u]

Cuchulain's Mantle is better for TP if accuracy is not capped with Cerb +1, generally speaking. As for WS, Smilodon+1 will (narrowly) beat it in attack-capped situations which are more frequent than you'd think with Gekko.

For other jobs it typically is the best WS backpiece.

EDIT: Why are my tags not working ;o
 Asura.Humtum
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By Asura.Humtum 2009-12-25 05:29:22
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i have tested out smilodon +1 and cerby mantle in every situation possible and cerby mantle won on every sinlge parse
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-12-25 05:37:50
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The difference will be very small. Talking in the magnitude of 0.67%~1% or so.

Doesn't mean it's still not better in attack-capped scenarios~
 Asura.Humtum
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By Asura.Humtum 2009-12-25 05:41:11
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the best advise i can give is try it out yourself and use what you think works best, i know many samurai will agree with me on this.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-12-25 05:45:22
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The math doesn't lie though and takes a lot less time and removes the element of result skewing from parse results.

Smilodon +1 is best in attack-capped scenarios and Cerberus Mantle +1 is best in the opposite. When is your attack capped? That is where personal intuition comes in. Probably not on DI/Tiamat/Kirin(non melee zerg)/Nidhogg/Adamantoise family/northlands Dynamis if not sufficiently buffed. Other than that, Smilodon+1 gogo.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-25 07:13:54
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Asura.Humtum said:
>_> if you had a cerb 1 you would be crazy not to full time it
more like would be gimp to fulltime it.

Haven't read any of the responses after this yet, and I'm sure it's been addressed, but Cuchulain's mantle for TP'ing when acc is uncapped, smild+1 for ws when attack is capped during WS.

Cerb+1 comes into play for capped acc for TP'ing and uncapped attack for WS

Most certainly not even close to the "if you had X, you'd be crazy not to full time it" status.
 Hades.Kvazz
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By Hades.Kvazz 2009-12-25 07:40:42
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Fairy.Vegetto said:
Asura.Humtum said:
>_> if you had a cerb 1 you would be crazy not to full time it
more like would be gimp to fulltime it.

Haven't read any of the responses after this yet, and I'm sure it's been addressed, but Cuchulain's mantle for TP'ing when acc is uncapped, smild 1 for ws when attack is capped during WS.

Cerb 1 comes into play for capped acc for TP'ing and uncapped attack for WS

Most certainly not even close to the "if you had X, you'd be crazy not to full time it" status.
Wish it was easier to know WHEN attack caps on witch mobs tho:( and not just take a guess =/
 Asura.Humtum
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By Asura.Humtum 2009-12-25 08:05:45
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ninja edit!!!!
i wont argue on this topic, you might think its gimp where i have tested out items and i think your items are gimp, anyways end result is do what you think it right and i will do the same =D
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-25 08:09:54
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Asura.Humtum said:
my acc is capped lol
Then swap out better slots and get more benefit than 18 attack.

You using ace's? swap to turban if you're capped and leave cuch on.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-25 08:11:01
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Asura.Humtum said:
ninja edit!!!!
i wont argue on this topic, you might think its gimp where i have tested out items and i think your items are gimp, anyways end result is do what you think it right and i will do the same =D
See we're the same in the fact that we each have our own opinion, but the difference is that you're wrong.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-25 08:11:55
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By the way, show me this set that caps acc universally.
 Asura.Humtum
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By Asura.Humtum 2009-12-25 08:12:18
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why would you swap 7 acc for 5 acc and loose a tone of att for 1% haste
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-25 08:19:39
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Because Cuchulain's is 8 accuracy

1 dex = .75 acc

4 x .75 = 3 + 5 = 8

1% haste > 18 attack.

Sam does about 30% of their damage in DoT and 70% of their damage in WS damage.

Let's say your attack is 500 on colibri
((518/293)-.35)/((500/293)-.35) = 4.5% increase in DoT

Hagun is 75 DMG, 4 str will up fstr by 1, 1/75 = 1.33% increase

1.045 x 1.0133 = 5.9% increase in DoT

Now here's the kicker. DoT is only 30% of all of the damage you do

5.9 x .3 = 1.77% increase in total damage.

Haste applies to ALL of your damage not just DoT.

You get DoT from hitting more times, and you get WS dmg because those hits bring you extra tp (where as str and attack only increase the dmg/hit but don't give you any tp) and you will ws more often.

So let's say you have 17% haste on your sam, 1 march, 1 haste, hasso

17 + 11 + 15 = 53% haste

1/(100-53) = 2.12% increase


2.12 > 1.77

Let's add a 2nd march = 62% haste

1/(100-62) = 2.6% increase

Ect.

1% haste > 18 attack 4 str
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-25 08:20:49
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So like I said, if you're capping acc, and you're using ace's to do it. Ace's should go first. If you're capped after that, with turban AND cerb, then that's fine, but if not, then W turban is the smarter swap, easily.

Edit:
Acc is the same as haste, it increases DoT AND WS dmg, because you hit more times and generate more TP. The acc is the only factor on that helm that makes it better than turban. Once you can cap acc, then it is no longer better, hence swapping to turban.

Double edit: Sam is a job that get's the vast majority of it's damage through it's WS. If we were talking mnk, which is 70% DoT 30% WS, it would be another story, but as far as sam goes, DoT compiles to less than 1/3 of their total damage. Focusing on increasing WS dmg will help more than focusing on the GKT's shitty DoT
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