Xui, Ohtas, Kenkonken, And Flame Holder

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Xui, Ohtas, Kenkonken, and flame holder
 Asura.Cherished
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By Asura.Cherished 2019-08-22 16:34:57
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I'm still a fairly fresh master pup and working towards Kenkonken--reading forums, posts and guides along the way.

A question came into my mind after figuring out why I was overloading continuously while using the flame holder attachment--if my little muffin tp's in Ohtas, WSs in Xui, and I do maneuvers in Kenkonken--can I keep from overloading due to flameholder and muffins ubiquitous use of WSs?

And another question, does someone already know?

If this young puppet masters dream of grandeur can be a reality, it could be a huge boost for a non-overdrive attachment set.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-08-22 16:43:48
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Just a tack on to this, how much burden does flame holder generate now? (I suppose that it's not really possible to quantify aside from "too much to use without overdrive" or "possible to use without overdrive")
does overload minus gear do anything, or still only work on use of maneuver?
And it cannot actually overload until you perform a fire manuever, no matter how high the burden gets, yes?
 Asura.Cherished
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By Asura.Cherished 2019-08-22 17:20:49
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Just a tack on to this, how much burden does flame holder generate now? (I suppose that it's not really possible to quantify aside from "too much to use without overdrive" or "possible to use without overdrive")
does overload minus gear do anything, or still only work on use of maneuver?
And it cannot actually overload until you perform a fire manuever, no matter how high the burden gets, yes?

I was testing this today doing CP on Apex bats and crabs--in a trio pt of whm, cor, and pup. Trusts were shantotto, Joachim and koru. I was using beast roll and Sam roll.

My little Muffin was doing 3-4 WSs every 45s--also using "cooldown"--and my "chance of overloading" never went above 0% for the entire ~90 min.

Sunday I tried to purposely spam Muffin's WSs as much as possible. Same pt setup but I used puppets roll and beast roll.

*note* It's hard for me to verify what current burden is prior to the chat log saying anything but 0%

With double fire and Wind, Muffin was able to WS an avg. of 2 every 15s. Even with with cooldown I was overloading continually after the first 5 min.

Second test was light, fire, wind and my overload chance only hit 8% once and that was forgetting to use cooldown and right after activating.

Third test was double wind and a fire, muffin lasted about 3.5 min and same with 2 fire and a wind, muffin stayed overloaded even with cooldown.
activate>maneuvers>fun>overload>cooldown>fun>overload

*edit#2* I should have noted that when I had 2 fire and light, that after overloading and using cooldown, that I waited around 2 min before engaging. Muffin used one WS and
My fire maneuver had 15s left, I refreshed it and chat said 18% chance. My cooldown still had 2+ min so I waited till the timer was 1 min before engaging again. My maneuver timers were up to about 3+ min duration.

I engaged Muffin and she immediately used a ws, and about 15s later used another, I couldn't tell if my fire maneuver had been auto refreshed or what but chat log said 81% chance of overload and Muffin had overloaded at that point.
I even tried 2 fires and light but the result was 4 min till overload and way fewer WSs.

*edit* i was using max -overload equips minus the neck, earring and kenkonken, for maneuvers.

The only time I wasn't using the -overload h2h was locking my weapon to ohtas when muffin was doing 3-4 WSs every 45s.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-08-22 17:26:46
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The one thing they did say about flame holders burden is that it does stack.

Burden with two maneuvers is greater than burden with one.
 Asura.Cherished
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By Asura.Cherished 2019-08-22 17:36:47
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
The one thing they did say about flame holders burden is that it does stack.

Burden with two maneuvers is greater than burden with one.

Definitely.

But is the only time an overload occurs during maneuvers and other commands? If so then I might overload during a deploy command but kenkonken would prevent overload from maneuvers 100% of the time, right?

So then long boss fights, can my idea work and the pup never overload?

Engage>tp with ohtas>ws with Xui>maneuver with kenkonken = never overload?
 Sylph.Excalin
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By Sylph.Excalin 2019-08-22 18:08:19
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I was using a triple Fire maneuver STP build when I tested out Flameholder...I generated well over 300+ burden without effort. Kenkonken may or may not have any kind of effect on this run away burden (If Equipped during WS). I kind of assume SE would have had to tweak the mythic during the update for that to be true.

I would need to sit down and gauge how much burden was generated by the attachment but my conclusion so far is that it is problematic when you stack maneuvers outside of OD.

I should test to see if the attachment generates burden during OD based on one maneuver.
 Asura.Cherished
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By Asura.Cherished 2019-08-22 18:37:46
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"Supresses overload"





"...adds burden to fire maneuvers."

I think maybe the answer I'm seeking can be found by asking this:

Does overload occur during puppet WSs?

If not a pup can have 100% overload chance and only need to equip Kenkonken during maneuvers and other pet commands.
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By Sylph.Excalin 2019-08-22 18:59:49
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"The following attachments no longer consume maneuvers and instead cause burden based on the number of maneuvers"

I guess that really depends on how the burden is assigned, I assume that the burden is assigned at the time of the WS based on how many Fire Maneuvers you had at the time it triggered. It would be really easy for you to test and confirm this.

The overload check of course only happens during the use of your next maneuver, I don't think Kenkonken does anything with existing burden. AFAIK it just reduces burden generation.
 Asura.Cherished
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By Asura.Cherished 2019-08-22 19:47:11
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Ok. Just wondering if someone has tried out my idea before.

I have seen part of the debate about flame holder + Kenkonken VS. Su5 (Xui), and Xui beats that setup.

But has anyone tried to Kenkonken just as a maneuver swap in with flame holder used and see how Xui during automaton WS spam holds up non-overdrive?
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By Nariont 2019-08-22 19:54:40
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https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/52194/string-theory-a-puppetmasters-guide-new/25/#3447553

and the previous page or two goes into some detail on how KKK functions for maneuvers, and that post in particular brings up midnights as a possible alternative or even better swap in for maneuvers to drop overload rates
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By Aerix 2019-08-23 00:59:18
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Thanks Nariont!

Here's the post of mine that tested how KKK and Flame Holder interact. Might answer some of the questions in this thread.
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 Asura.Cherished
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By Asura.Cherished 2019-08-23 16:30:02
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Thanks for the answers.