Square Enix Loss Is A Good Thing.

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Square enix loss is a good thing.
 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2018-11-11 19:17:36
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I saw the Red Rooks Bar of Death and immediately thought someone got banned.

I’m just going to wait for the next full content JRPG and skip all this buy as-bundles-money-grabbing-crap-excuses of what we call teh vidyagaems now days

Edit: PAGED!!!!!!1

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By Viciouss 2018-11-11 19:28:41
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FF15's story completely fell apart once you went to Altissia. It was a bad game that had a lot of hype so it sold well early, but then sales flatlined once people figured out it was not only bad but it had zero replay value. I think it ended up with around 8m copies sold, which is a good number for SE but below average for a hyped AAA game. Sony has outsold that number with two exclusives this year, and we don't need to talk about Red Dead sales.

I was surprised when I saw that they were planning 4 more paid DLCs after the initial run of DLC, and even more surprised when they cancelled it. Fine. Close the book on this game. I'm lukewarm on KH3 prospects and who really knows if FF7 Remake is ever going to come out. It seems like another cycle of development hell for that game.

I want SE to succeed and have been financially supportive for more years/games than they deserve, but they are in timeout right now. I cancelled by 14 sub for good (or at least a long, long time) and will be waiting for reviews/price drop on KH3. I honestly don't care if its turn based or not, I can play either. I just want a solid JRPG, they can still be done, Persona 5 says hello.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2018-11-11 19:37:47
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KH3 has much less of a chance to get *** up considering it's not being tinkered and *** with at a systemic level, but it is taking entirely too long to get made because... Nomura. Biggest problem with KH is that you practically need to take a college course to understand the plot at this point.
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By Viciouss 2018-11-11 22:11:58
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Im going in blind and hoping its friendly to newcomers.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-11-11 22:33:38
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
^this is also why mobile games are so prevalent. Most of them take far less money to make than "real" console/pc games, resulting in massive profit margins for less investment

Also far less financial risk in trying new ideas or seeing what works and what doesn't.
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By Lakshmi.Lenus 2018-11-11 22:37:11
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Stella died for this
 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2018-11-12 01:46:49
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
XV's combat system, while basic, wasn't the problem. Problem was the horribly hole ridden, disjointed story that only barely feels like it holds together after an entire season pass worth of DLC. Ardyn was a great villain but he was used so poorly, it's a crying shame. The Witcher 3 shows how you can hold together a basic, flawed combat cycle with an incredible story and deep world building.

I love turn based games as much as the next nerd but leave that to low budget mobile and handhelds at this point. DQ11 was a great game and all but the combat system shows how dated and restrictive a turn based model is in modern day rpgs. There's only two dimensions, and the strategy almost always devolves into put up your op buffs/debuffs and spam your special gauge for massive damage. Least with most well crafted action combat systems you have to care about positioning of yourself and your team mates.

XII was a decent blend of the two and I wouldn't mind seeing a much more advanced version of that in XVI.
I generally agree with what you said but, personally, gameplay was "the" problem. FFXII had a pretty meh story (probably due to development hell IIRC), and I was very disappointed about that when I beat the game (weirdly enough, I felt satisfied after beating FFXV; the final chapter was fantastic). The journey, though, more than made it up for that, and it was because of the fantastic gameplay experience. If FFXV had an engaging character growth & battle system then I would've been intrigued about all the DLCs and free hunt quests they add from time to time.

I decided to buy XV once I learned about hunts. Too bad the basic gameplay and potion spamfest made them feel trite. On the other hand, even though I wasn't interested in the Lightning Returns story (I mean, 13 was horrible and I naturally skipped 13-2), the gameplay was fun enough to keep me interested for a while.

Anyways, I support how the FF devs have been experimenting with new systems of gameplay in the latter installments, but I wouldn't mind a throwback to the turn-based system neither. Persona 5 seems to have enjoyed a great deal of success (I haven't played the game, but haven't seen people complain about the gameplay neither).
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2018-11-12 01:59:50
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Persona 5 is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, but it definitely isn't for the combat itself. Persona's combat basically devolves into a big game of rock paper scissors where on tougher bosses you pop an atk buff and def break and that's about it. Give your protagonist an attack of every element and you can win every trash battle in the game save the couple of dudes that have no weaknesses, in which case all it takes is the aforementioned DEF break and ATK buff on your strongest attacker, maybe an ATK break if the thing you're fighting is particularly strong.

Persona's strength lies in the incredible style that the game has in general and the mix of genre defining character development and storytelling. Being a Japanese life simulator and, much more minor in scope, a dating sim appeals to some people a lot too and, while those things are handled very well in P5, they aren't really the main draw for me. If the stories of each character were told in any way I'd still be satisfied, the life simulator structure just makes it more enjoyable. Therefor, while the combat isn't BAD, it's still quite repetitive and samey overall, and if you couldn't negotiate with shadows to recruit them/get more loot it'd be as banal as any other turn based combat system. But the game is nearly unmatched in its ability to sell a character and their story, with games only as high on my personal totem pole as Witcher 3 managing to sit with it at the top.

Don't get me wrong, I won't complain about a turn based combat system, but part of me will be disappointed that they didn't make it either a hybrid action/turn based system like XII or a full blown action system like Kingdom Hearts.
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By 2018-11-12 02:25:56
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By Afania 2018-11-12 03:21:33
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Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
XV's combat system, while basic, wasn't the problem. Problem was the horribly hole ridden, disjointed story that only barely feels like it holds together after an entire season pass worth of DLC. Ardyn was a great villain but he was used so poorly, it's a crying shame. The Witcher 3 shows how you can hold together a basic, flawed combat cycle with an incredible story and deep world building.

I love turn based games as much as the next nerd but leave that to low budget mobile and handhelds at this point. DQ11 was a great game and all but the combat system shows how dated and restrictive a turn based model is in modern day rpgs. There's only two dimensions, and the strategy almost always devolves into put up your op buffs/debuffs and spam your special gauge for massive damage. Least with most well crafted action combat systems you have to care about positioning of yourself and your team mates.

XII was a decent blend of the two and I wouldn't mind seeing a much more advanced version of that in XVI.
I generally agree with what you said but, personally, gameplay was "the" problem. FFXII had a pretty meh story (probably due to development hell IIRC), and I was very disappointed about that when I beat the game (weirdly enough, I felt satisfied after beating FFXV; the final chapter was fantastic). The journey, though, more than made it up for that, and it was because of the fantastic gameplay experience. If FFXV had an engaging character growth & battle system then I would've been intrigued about all the DLCs and free hunt quests they add from time to time.

I decided to buy XV once I learned about hunts. Too bad the basic gameplay and potion spamfest made them feel trite. On the other hand, even though I wasn't interested in the Lightning Returns story (I mean, 13 was horrible and I naturally skipped 13-2), the gameplay was fun enough to keep me interested for a while.

Anyways, I support how the FF devs have been experimenting with new systems of gameplay in the latter installments, but I wouldn't mind a throwback to the turn-based system neither. Persona 5 seems to have enjoyed a great deal of success (I haven't played the game, but haven't seen people complain about the gameplay neither).


You know what I would like to see for next gen JRPG battle system? Something more realistic like this:

YouTube Video Placeholder


But using a more command driven battle system that involves FF magic.

What I would like to see really is more detailed interaction with the environment. Hide behind trees to dodge arrows, cast fire on the grass to burn whoever hide behind it, cast blizzard on the river to create a bridge, or cast stone to create a platform for height advantages...multiple ways to win a battle etc. This kind of interaction creates immersion, that could make the player feel like they are part of the world.

So really, I feel FF15 is stepping toward the right direction with more environment interaction. It's certainly far from perfect, and I feel the battle system could use a lot of improvement. Baby steps though, hopefully ff7 remake would push the real time battle system to another level.

As far as story and presentation goes, in terms of value I personally I place them 1 tier below immersion in rpg. I'd be ok with FF15 quality of story and character as long as the world and battle is immersive enough. In fact character/story is one thing I complain the least about 15, lol. Not having grand theft auto level of freedom(while being advertised as open world rpg) is FF15's biggest weakness, imo.
 
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-11-12 05:35:22
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I want them to put that ***in XI for trusts, trusts are basically identical to 12
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2018-11-12 10:31:53
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 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2018-11-12 13:37:32
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Persona 5 is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, but it definitely isn't for the combat itself. Persona's combat basically devolves into a big game of rock paper scissors where on tougher bosses you pop an atk buff and def break and that's about it. Give your protagonist an attack of every element and you can win every trash battle in the game save the couple of dudes that have no weaknesses, in which case all it takes is the aforementioned DEF break and ATK buff on your strongest attacker, maybe an ATK break if the thing you're fighting is particularly strong.

Persona's strength lies in the incredible style that the game has in general and the mix of genre defining character development and storytelling. Being a Japanese life simulator and, much more minor in scope, a dating sim appeals to some people a lot too and, while those things are handled very well in P5, they aren't really the main draw for me. If the stories of each character were told in any way I'd still be satisfied, the life simulator structure just makes it more enjoyable. Therefor, while the combat isn't BAD, it's still quite repetitive and samey overall, and if you couldn't negotiate with shadows to recruit them/get more loot it'd be as banal as any other turn based combat system. But the game is nearly unmatched in its ability to sell a character and their story, with games only as high on my personal totem pole as Witcher 3 managing to sit with it at the top.

Don't get me wrong, I won't complain about a turn based combat system, but part of me will be disappointed that they didn't make it either a hybrid action/turn based system like XII or a full blown action system like Kingdom Hearts.
Oh yeah. I'm aware that Persona's main charms are the style and characters.
I think that turn-based (done right) still have merits that action RPGs (also done right) tend to forgo (for now at least). A good turn-based that forces you to utitlize most of what you have at your disposal (different characters & their abilities) will help make the rest of the cast feel more relevant and important to the game, while in action RPGs the focus tends to be on the protagnist (less strategy involving abilities and set-ups, more about environment), and the action part means more active control and button presses to change postion, dodge stuff, perform QTEs, etc. They tend to care less about character growth systems when the game is more focused on the action. Overall they put less emphasis on some aspects that old-school players value more (like character growth), and I guess that's why some "old-school" players are never satisfied when a beloved turn-based series goes action.


Afania said: »
All that while being in VR. Who would refuse to play that? :)
One could argue though that you could improve on the already existing action RPGs instead of killing (or erasing from the AAA league) the turn-based genre altogether.