Square Enix Loss Is A Good Thing.

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Square enix loss is a good thing.
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 Asura.Kalimairo
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By Asura.Kalimairo 2018-11-11 04:02:55
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https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/damien-cox/square-enix-haemorrhages-money-after-reporting-33-million-loss/

Yea next time when you make a new FF make sure its turn based ***,
maybe now we will get real final fantasy's after ff7 remake.
Project octopath >>>ff15 and 13

or make sure u complete a full *** game DLC shouldn't be payed for if your game was not complete from release.
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 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2018-11-11 04:34:22
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YEAH, ***!
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 Valefor.Marthastewert
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By Valefor.Marthastewert 2018-11-11 05:36:46
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It’s a good thing.
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By Justuas 2018-11-11 06:29:11
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Should have spent the money to ffxi instead. Make ffxi great again!
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-11-11 06:33:42
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FFXV did really well, ***
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 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-11-11 06:52:37
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Siren.Kyte said: »
FFXV did really well, ***
They can’t read sales just what kind of game they wanted. Tabata leaving wasn’t about sales plus they loss money recently because of changes within their development department not sales. As for the dlc changes not surprised.
 Bahamut.Agerine
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By Bahamut.Agerine 2018-11-11 07:23:44
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Bahamut.Negan said: »
YEAH, ***!

Where is Lucille? Where is she!?
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By 2018-11-11 08:30:48
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 Lakshmi.Chilzen
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By Lakshmi.Chilzen 2018-11-11 09:50:39
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XV curbstomped Octopath so hard that they can barely identify the body, on top of XV probably doing DQ's lifetime sales here in the west with how much it sold.

As far as selling completed games, my PC version seems pretty complete to me, and it's standard practice these days to push out DLC post production. Even Mario & Rabbids has a "Gold" version by this point with the added DK campaign that almost rivals half the original game from what I read, meaning Ubisoft and Nintendo also pushed out some incomplete product that somehow had a complete experience and ending to it, alongside extra scenarios.

It's easy enough to understand nowadays why the media and even devs are screeching about entitled gamers, since wanting SE to possibly change productions over a AAA game is about as bad as the Diablo Immortal backlash, which I get as a longtime fan, but I can't condone people purposely review bombing and actively encouraging others to damage Blizzard however they can. That's just silly for grown adults who should know that if they don't like something, don't waste their time with it. And to cap off all this, that 33M loss just means SE will play it safer and probably shut down Octopath 2's development and instead focus more on a mobile title's marketing to recoup in the safest way possible, but yeah, screw those guys am I right? /s
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 Ragnarok.Rydal
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By Ragnarok.Rydal 2018-11-11 10:54:39
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Lakshmi.Chilzen said: »
As far as selling completed games, my PC version seems pretty complete to me, and it's standard practice these days to push out DLC post production.

You must not have any idea what FFXV day one release looked like. It was a shell of a game. It wasn't just DLC scenarios that added to the game. Comparing it to the PC version (which is the same as the Royal edition iirc) is like comparing FFXI beta to the Ultimate Seekers edition.

Honestly, FFXV wasn't a terrible game (post additional content). It was very mediocre, which is probably why so many people are so outraged by it. YEARS of development, broken promises, VersusXIII is actually FFXV lol, the disappointing day one version, the DLC nightmare that followed. The final product, even when not directly comparing it to other FF games was not worth the wait and many fans saw this as SE's last chance following the divisiveness that came before, going as far as FFX or XII. I don't agree with the "review bombing" that people seem to love to do, but at the same time, I cannot really defend FFXV because it wasn't a great game. It was barely passable, post DLC.
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By Afania 2018-11-11 11:15:52
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Asura.Kalimairo said: »


Turn base in 2018 no thanks...

I can tolerate turn based jrpg in pre 2000, doesn't mean I can in 2018. And I bet my preference is similar to vast majority of gamer in 2018 as well. AAA rpg in past couple of years like witcher3 isn't turn based, it's a trend. Turned based system is more niche, wayyy more.

as game technology advance gamers will ask for more, more realistic battle system etc, turn based system is outdated because it doesn't offer realistic experience IMO.

FFXV is one step toward a more realistic gameplay. It's not a perfect game, but IMO its the right direction for jrpg.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-11-11 12:00:40
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The problem with SE is they are trying to make an all-in-one game that appeals to the broadest audience possible, meaning it's only good at one or two things and absolutely ***at everything else. This has proven to be a very bad design tactic for the rest of the AAA game makers.
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By funsam 2018-11-11 13:35:33
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Its not a loss its less profit they still earning $76.4million in 6 months, also no mention in that post that they pushing lot of resources into the Marvel AAA game they working on.
 Leviathan.Isiolia
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By Leviathan.Isiolia 2018-11-11 13:47:47
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Whatever people may think of XV, the initial sales aren't really the issue here. It sold well to start, and likely has made a decent bit in DLC as well. SE's six month financial report being referenced still underscores the importance of post-release content.

That said, it's likely that the overall model was not as successful as they hoped. Figure, last gen XIII, XIII-2, and Lightning Returns were all ~2 years apart. We're coming up on two years since XV released. If they wanted to compare revenue between supporting a game with DLC for a couple years versus tasking the team with another full release, they kind of have it.

Realistically, they're not bleeding cash. Almost all of their business units are making less this year, so far, but some of that is going to be due to there not being many releases in the first two quarters (Octopath which sold maybe 20% of what FFXV did in its launch period, and Tomb Raider which was only released at the tail end of the second quarter).
Their games (and probably merch) businesses will probably spike way, way up for Kingdom Hearts III if nothing else.

Long and short is really that they're a company that, like Blizzard or Nintendo or whoever else, can afford to take the hit that shifting strategy like that entails. Heck, for all we know they're shifting to make launch games for the PS5 and will end up getting some money from Sony to offset it.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2018-11-11 14:37:06
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Leviathan.Isiolia said: »
Their games (and probably merch) businesses will probably spike way, way up for Kingdom Hearts III if nothing else.
Just like it did with the much expected FFXV.

They're both foretold failures for many, many, many reasons. They should have completely wiped every project that was ruined by FFXIV. Trying to finish them at all cost is costing them a lot of money and in the end the products are complete garbage.

KHIII is already having an immense backlash in EU countries for not having dubs whereas the first two did. The excuse given by SE is a complete joke, they aren't master of their product at all here. They had already given up back in 2011 but they're still giving up today with no sign of change.
As much as I support them through various means other than FFXI (arcade games, mobile games etc.), between their shitty Eidos games and the more than disappointing SE games, they're in a never ending spiral of ***with no end in sight.

Leviathan.Isiolia said: »
Long and short is really that they're a company that, like Blizzard or Nintendo or whoever else, can afford to take the hit that shifting strategy like that entails. Heck, for all we know they're shifting to make launch games for the PS5 and will end up getting some money from Sony to offset it.
They are completely fine for sure, they'd have to have worse reports for several years in a row before being in deep ***. And yes, they do get money from Sony for several stuff that they don't advertise (not game/merch related).

But at the end of the day, even if they aren't threatened, they aren't doing well at all. I don't even know what project, and I do say project not game, could allow them to catch a breath and maybe start anew on a less shitty path.

They should really switch to mobile games for a few years before trying to release shitty console games (and they need to seriously rethink their Eidos games, for the 3rd time in 4 years).
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-11-11 14:42:15
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Square really has no idea what customers want. Their thumb is so far away from the consumer pulse, because it's jammed "squarely" up their own ***.

I (was) a diehard square fan. I even like the spirits within. Played everything. Will NOT touch 13 13II 14 15 none of their mobile freemiums etc
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By clearlyamule 2018-11-11 14:52:26
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Lakshmi.Chilzen said: »
It's easy enough to understand nowadays why the media and even devs are screeching about entitled gamers, since wanting SE to possibly change productions over a AAA game is about as bad as the Diablo Immortal backlash, which I get as a longtime fan, but I can't condone people purposely review bombing and actively encouraging others to damage Blizzard however they can.
I don't think you really understand why people are mad about this. This was the showstopper thing they built hype up for. At blizzcon to be shown to a bunch of obviously hard core PC gamers. The thing itself was clearly a presentation for investors wanting to cash in on monetization schemes not actual customers/fan base. Then the derogatory responses and the whole oh we doing this with all our IPs don't you guys have phones? Lowering the maturity level so they can get a younger audience with micro transactions etc. Deleting youtube comments and dislikes. It's like watching a beloved studio turn into EA

It's not entitlement to hate on a company that blatantly ignores it's entire customer base for a quick cash grab of another potential customer base. And the only way to make corporate who cares mostly about profit listen is to effect their profit
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2018-11-11 15:38:23
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It's important SE learns the real lesson at the heart of these losses: to adopt all my specific design preferences.

EDIT: that said, I really hope they aren't throwing much money at Tokyo RPG Factory.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2018-11-11 15:57:27
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but I like turn based JRPG... the focus on strategy rather than dexterity is a nice shift sometimes
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 Fenrir.Niflheim
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By Fenrir.Niflheim 2018-11-11 16:08:34
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Square really has no idea what customers want. Their thumb is so far away from the consumer pulse, because it's jammed "squarely" up their own ***.

Just think it worth stating the saying is "fingers on the pulse". using your thumb just leaves you likely feeling your own pulse...

:D which on it's own, is the metaphor you were looking for
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2018-11-11 16:14:14
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XV's combat system, while basic, wasn't the problem. Problem was the horribly hole ridden, disjointed story that only barely feels like it holds together after an entire season pass worth of DLC. Ardyn was a great villain but he was used so poorly, it's a crying shame. The Witcher 3 shows how you can hold together a basic, flawed combat cycle with an incredible story and deep world building.

I love turn based games as much as the next nerd but leave that to low budget mobile and handhelds at this point. DQ11 was a great game and all but the combat system shows how dated and restrictive a turn based model is in modern day rpgs. There's only two dimensions, and the strategy almost always devolves into put up your op buffs/debuffs and spam your special gauge for massive damage. Least with most well crafted action combat systems you have to care about positioning of yourself and your team mates.

XII was a decent blend of the two and I wouldn't mind seeing a much more advanced version of that in XVI.
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 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-11-11 16:24:24
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
XV's combat system, while basic, wasn't the problem. Problem was the horribly hole ridden, disjointed story that only barely feels like it holds together after an entire season pass worth of DLC. Ardyn was a great villain but he was used so poorly, it's a crying shame. The Witcher 3 shows how you can hold together a basic, flawed combat cycle with an incredible story and deep world building.

I love turn based games as much as the next nerd but leave that to low budget mobile and handhelds at this point. DQ11 was a great game and all but the combat system shows how dated and restrictive a turn based model is in modern day rpgs. There's only two dimensions, and the strategy almost always devolves into put up your op buffs/debuffs and spam your special gauge for massive damage. Least with most well crafted action combat systems you have to care about positioning of yourself and your team mates.

XII was a decent blend of the two and I wouldn't mind seeing a much more advanced version of that in XVI.
Facts
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2018-11-11 16:26:06
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Also, keep Nomura far away from the director/producer roles. He's woefully inadequate for the task and needs to stay in his niche. He has no sense of urgency and his ability to actually finish a job doesn't exist. 10 year dev cycles where the game is erased and remade a dozen times should be unacceptable.

As much as I hate Yoshida's narrow vision, he fits the bill for director/producer far more than Nomura ever has and ever will. Yoshida produces results in less than a *** decade. Tabata also turned a pile of scrap and sadness into a playable game, but he's the one who got canned. Japanese corporate politics remain the worst.
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By Nyarlko 2018-11-11 16:32:44
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Just give me more Parasite Eve and I'll be happy. :3
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-11-11 17:05:15
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Nyarlko said: »
Just give me more Parasite Eve and I'll be happy. :3

We don't agree on anything basically ever, but another PE game, I'm in.

Only, pirating.
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By Idiot Boy 2018-11-11 17:35:53
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Also, keep Nomura far away from the director/producer roles. He's woefully inadequate for the task and needs to stay in his niche. He has no sense of urgency and his ability to actually finish a job doesn't exist. 10 year dev cycles where the game is erased and remade a dozen times should be unacceptable.

As much as I hate Yoshida's narrow vision, he fits the bill for director/producer far more than Nomura ever has and ever will. Yoshida produces results in less than a *** decade. Tabata also turned a pile of scrap and sadness into a playable game, but he's the one who got canned. Japanese corporate politics remain the worst.

no_lies_detected.jpg

I get why they keep giving Nomura high end roles; for all of his struggles as a lead, he's been a huge part of their most successful projects. They really need to just sit him in a room by himself and have him crank out ideas and concepts (which he's an all-timer at), without having to worry about schedules or project management (where he's an insane liability to the company).

I think Yoshida's biggest problem is that he's never quite moved past "crisis mode". First they had to save FFXIV, a numbered entry in the main series. Which, no matter what someone thinks of his choices, he did. The problem is that he set unmaintainable goals going forward though, which leads to the sort of paycheck-to-paycheck dev cycle that XIV seems mired in. He might have some better ideas, but he has no runway to implement them, so we get a very predictable schedule with very predictable content.

(Matsui has similar issues; he might have some ideas for XI, but he has no manpower or budget, and that's before factoring in problems like PS2 dev kits).

Tabata leaving sucks, full stop.
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By Zerowone 2018-11-11 18:11:26
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On the topic of Tabata there seems to be some confusion on his departure. He left on his own to start his own development house.
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2018-11-11 18:24:35
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funsam said: »
Its not a loss its less profit they still earning $76.4million in 6 months, also no mention in that post that they pushing lot of resources into the Marvel AAA game they working on.

It's important to remember shareholders and investors will not see it this way. As a business, it's their job to maximize profit for those investors. If they fail to do so, there typically isn't a "good enough". You've got displeased investors. Displeased investors sell their stock (thus value drops), resulting in actions to (attempt to) improve profit. As gamers, it's natural to say "make the things I want!" As a business, it's natural to reduce costs and increase profit margins.

TL;DR - Look forward to live services and micro-transactions.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2018-11-11 18:50:08
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^this is also why mobile games are so prevalent. Most of them take far less money to make than "real" console/pc games, resulting in massive profit margins for less investment
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By Draylo 2018-11-11 18:59:04
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15 felt like a big mess when I played it. It had so much DLC I had no idea what the story was and just gave up caring. You have to watch videos and other crap to even understand it.
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