Multi Attack Vs Store TP

I've been refining my TP set on Bst/nin

This is my current TP Set (low acc)

ItemSet 362704

Argosy are path D except for head, which is path A
Artio Mantle is 30 STR, 20 acc/attack, 10% DA

Unfortunately the NQ Argosy set is quite deficient in Accuracy for the current high end content. I do plan to replace it with HQ versions (I actually have the feet, but they are in just WS set).

And this is the only good set for Master store tp on bst. Every melee bst is jealous of the Flamma set.

I'm hoping for some input and experience from the community about Double Attack vs Store TP.

Im using the bst dps spreadsheet, which I think is still reliable for TP, though the WS's are much less so.

I have 32 DA, 4 TA, and 53 Store TP in this set.

I'm debating about changing to 30 Dex, 10 Store TP mantle.

I don't really know where the boundaries are for useful Store TP vs Double Attack.

I can almost always self skillchain if I start with Physical WS, Mistral Axe or better Ruinator, but self-skillchain depends on a DA proc if I try to Open with Cloudsplitter or Primal Rend. (using trusts for max haste, etc)

I'd like to more reliably self-skillchain. Any insight on DA vs Store Tp would be appreciated.

Also, on higher Acc sets, I lose alot of both DA and Store tp. which would be better to try to maintain?

I have a really hard time self-skillchain with Bst.

The way I figure it. If you can activate the AM3 on mythic then DA would be a lot less valuable than store TP because they are excluded from the bonus given by AM.

For the back, Dex is needed for Bst since we tend to miss a fair bit. I think DA is better without AM3 not because you can WS more but because the storeTP isn't going to make you self SC more

You're not haste capped, so that's the first thing you need to fix. I suppose you could get close enough with a Cheer effect if you want to go that route prior to HQing your hands. Once you're haste capped, you can also switch Suppa to Eabani. I don't care enough to check the spreadsheet myself, but Blurred+1 might be worth looking into as an offhand to Aymur.


Full Argosy is probably a pretty good way to get rekt against a lot of high end content, though.

I honestly can't find a way to cap haste w/out losing more in another slot. yes, getting +1 Argosy mufflers is the next best step, but aside from that, I think I lose too much elsewhere.

hasty pinion +1 gets me acc and the haste, but I lose 6 StP. it loses every time in spreadsheet. no matter the other configurations.

Swapping out mantle is kinda ridiculous. Grounded Mantle +1 is alright, but I'm either losing attack, pdt, DA and 30 str, or 30 dex, 10 STP and acc/attack

swapping an argosy piece loses me at least 3 DA and 5~7 STP let alone the str and dex.



ABSOLUTELY!
I pretty much just swap out Argosy for Ankusa 3, Heyoka, or Totemic 3 depending on how much Acc I really need. (and Eabani like you mentioned)

I sometimes use Hatxiik or Hunahpu in offhand for a tp builder. It works pretty well. Especially complementary to AM3 on Aymur. I can't seem to find the information on blurred +1 Axe. not entire sure how the OAT works on it. and I've never seen one available.

I would love to get Pangu. you can do some ridiculous things w/ that much DT for master and pet.

I just dont' get to bring my bst to high end master dps. so wondering which is more valuable in such a situation: DA or stp

uncapped haste is way worse for overall DPS than 6 less STP, always cap haste before anything.

Even if meva/mdb is not a concern, I think I would switch:

body- > Tali'ah +2
legs -> Meghanda+2
boots -> TA Taeon
Suppa -> Telos
back -> STP
ring1 -> Hetairoi

personally I loved bst/dnc using KC off-hand with capped haste and as much Store-TP as i could get. I was able to do WS back to back quite often. when soloing things that i had to run out of range to avoid deadly AoE effects, this was something that made my fights go much faster. (i quit back in 2013, so idk if my post is still relevant)

Consider this set:

ItemSet 362711

* Valorous augmented with: DEX+1-10, Accuracy/Attack+20-40, Store TP+7-8
* Emicho Coronet +1, Path D: Attack+25, "Store TP"+7, Pet: STR+20
* Emicho Gauntlets +1, Path D: Accuracy+25, "Dual Wield"+6, Pet: Accuracy+25 --> Set Bonus: Double Attack+4%
* Meg. Chausses +2 are viable as well if you don't want to bother with augments and especially if you need more Accuracy. But keep in mind they have ZERO Magic Evasion, although MDB+2 more than Valorous. Generally you can live without MEVA, but in a party setting having gear without it makes Barfire/Baramnesia basically useless to you
* Cape augmented with: DEX+20, Accuracy+30, Attack+20, Store TP+10, your choice of DT
* Sweordfaetels+1 for Store TP and to cap your gear Haste.
* Emicho+1 hands and Suppa to cap DW.
* Chirich+1 to get some more Accuracy, but Moonlight Ring also works for some more HP/DT or just stick with your Petrov
* Blurred Axe +1 for OAT and extra Accuracy to build AM3.
* If you need more Accuracy, you can swap out Emicho+1 head for Valorous Mask/Argosy+1/Yaoyotl at the cost of the Set Bonus.

Overall, this set has a good mix of DA/TA and lots of STP for your pre-AM3 and post-AM3 TP phase without sacrificing defensive stats like Argosy would. Total bonuses should be something like: DA+15%, TA+9%, STP+72

Extra STP isn't a bad thing because TP overflow will greatly benefit your Cloudsplitter damage. You can also use a different mainhand like Farsha without comprimising your TP speed too much, thanks to Blurred Axe +1. But Pangu Path B will probably be your BiS if you're serious about BST melee.

That set is actually quite good.

It actually does outperform my set in the spreadsheet. My cycle time is 544 with 3.45 rounds/ws.

Your set is 516 Cycle time with 3.30 rounds/ws.

A full Argosy D +1 in my set will still eek out ahead, but the difference in completely negligible. 514 Cycle time and 3.28 rounds/ws.

I have long been irritable at the lack of vit/agi/int/mnd/chr/meva/mdb from the argosy set, so I would count your set as superior. I knew valorous coudl get greater stp, but I was discouraged about trying to augment a full set. This is a very good compromise. Thank you.

All the other suggestions have actually been downgrades that I've compared in spreadsheet before.

Although I cannot compare blurred axe +1 in spreadsheet. I really need the correct OAT information, Hatxiik is a decent substitute.

Your set shows 17 da, 9 ta, and 70 ~72 STP. though getting those Valorous Augments could take some time. The pattern seems to show Store TP as superior to DA in the ranges I'm looking at, but I'm really not sure where the thresholds are.

For all intents and purposes 115 OAT and Blurred OAT are identical (40% I believe), the problem with blurred being, some trusts will NOT overwrite haste 1 with haste 2

Argosy is a primarily a WS set and it's amazingly good at that. It sacrifices all those other stats for pure STR,DEX,Acc,Atk with Store TP and DA. Prior to the WSD buff/bug/whatever it was some of the best gear for WS's like Resolution and Ruinator. When I CP'd BST to 2100 I went full DD route with a gearset very much like the one that was posted except more MA because I was using Aeonic Axe with an augmented Dirlgblog (whatever) in the off hand.

On a note about Store TP and MA (Multi-Attack)

2 DA > 2 Store TP > 1 DA > 1 Store TP

Both MA and Store TP do the same thing, increase your WS frequency. You can see a DA as a 1% chance for +100% TP gain, mathematically the same as a 100% chance for a +1% TP gain. DA is slightly more valuable because it does damage while providing that extra TP where as Store TP only provides extra TP. This gets more complicated when you start introducing multiple sources of both, Samurai's Roll is so stupendously powerful that it usually shifts the equation towards MA due to diminishing returns. Mythic AM3's are nice but they only apply on the main hand hit and have a 40/20 proc chance, meaning with zero MA 76% of your attacks will be single attacks, things like QA, TA and DA will reduce those single attacks.

It's very good that your looking at cycle time and rounds/ws, that's how you optimize DPS. Next step should be to work around your average hits per round and then tune each slot individually (it's not a all-or-nothing type of setup). There is a multi-attack calculator you can use and figure out your average attacks per round.

To understand the math real quick

100 Attacks with 1% DA and no Store TP would be
100 * 1.01 = 101 * 1.0 = 101, a 1% increase in TP gain and one hit extra worth of damage.

100 Attacks with 1% Store TP and no DA would be
100 * 1.0 = 100 * 1.01 = 101 also a 1% increase in TP gain

With the numbers used your looking at 3.27364 average hits per round for DW, meaning 1.63682 per hand though the distribution will be heavier on your main hand. But your going to have a 0.7553 single attack rate, meaning 75% of the time your going to attack once. So 63.6% extra hits with a 75% single attack rate means your TP gain is going to be erratic as ***, one cycle your going to be slow and another your going to have TP in a few seconds. BST can get quite a bit more TA so that's what I'd be focusing on anyway since it's twice as effective as DA.

Thank you. This is a very helpful guideline.

Its understandable that Argosy is setup as a WS set. However its so rare to find Stp on head/body/hands/legs/feet for bst, that argosy really stands out in that respect.

I see, paying attention on average hits/round helps narrow in on the relationship between MA and STP.

Bst has such a nice collection of Skillchain properties, that it really makes one want to be able to self-skillchian. Also in a player buffed party, it makes sense to push pet into a support/backup tanking roll. GenerousArthur, Left-handed Yoko and FluffyBredo among others are very good for this, and they can burst REALLY well for a melee job.
Its the best way to maximize dps on the job in my opinion.

That was the entire point of that set, you get perfect DD stats but are forced to give up iLevel defensive stats. The only piece that's really "safe" to use are the hands since that slot doesn't normally get much in the way of defensive options, though Emicho +1 end up being a better fit for Dual Wielding jobs. Honestly I didn't think about pairing the Emicho Head with the Hands because I normally use Body + Hands and the Head has zero accuracy on Path D but I can see it's attractiveness. Would likely go with windbuffet +1 belt over the sweord and Meg Legs +2 because those kinds of Valorous augments don't happen often. I happen to have a pair of Valorous feet with Store TP +7, Accuracy +30, some Attack and 8 STR, and I've never seen another augment of that level again even after thousands of stones.

I think the Blurred +1 items have a 40% OaT proc rate, which is why DA is very devalued in that set. Between Mythic and Blurred +1 DA is not going to do much, TA is still useful and Store TP is king provided you don't have Samurai's Roll in which case it becomes a tug of war between TA and Store TP.

-Edit-
Looking over it again it seems BST has a hard time capping gear haste using much of that gear, which explains why I used a Sarissaphoroi belt when I was CPing it.

Arciela is the only Trust that will overwrite Haste 1. I recently confirmed that KoH does not do it and Koru-Moru obviously doesn't, either.

Just gives you even more of a reason to pair Arciela and Ygnas, if the permanent Indi-Refresh and two AoE JA heals weren't already convincing enough.

And yes, if you aren't using Aymur for OAX, you'll definitely want to focus more on DA/TA instead of STP. But Blurred Axe+1 is going to be hard to beat by pretty much anything, because it provides the perfect stats for an off-hand as far as TPing is concerned. BST is basically in the same boat as an SB COR with regard to gearing, who typically use Blurred Knife +1 in offhand.

I wouldn't recommend using Hatxiik for anything above CL128 or so, because it seriously lacks a lot of skill needed for base accuracy. While Blurred Axe +1 and Hatxiik have the same OAT rates, Blurred Axe +1 has 59 more offhand Accuracy over Hatxiik even when taking augments into consideration, not to mention more Attack from the skill. However, even with lower native skill, Blurred Knife +1 will have more overall Accuracy than Hatxiik and it has superior delay. If Blurred Axe +1 isn't an option or you aren't fighting CL130+ stuff, then consider getting one of those as they're typically common on the AH due to COR.

In any case, this is a more Triple Attack-focused set. Note that you'll want a perfect SR augment or at least Haste+5-6% on the Loyalist sabatons to cap gear haste:

ItemSet 362726

Acro/Taeon gear could also substitute some pieces for Dual Wield, Triple Attack, gear Haste etc. if you feel like burning stones.

If Arci 1 didn't do that stupid AoE amnesia move, she'd be great. But that move totally ruins it. KoH does AoE too, shame. Koru the only smart* RDM.

The simplist little upgrade to AI or a gambit system would've been a *** crazy QOL upgrade.

They were smart enough to toggle Fellow AOE, but can't be bothered to do it for trust. Such a waste.

True, but given that Ygnas also uses stupid AoE damage moves, there's not much lost if you pair them and just compensate for it.

And a lot of Trusts need overhauls, to be honest, as 90% of them are pretty much useless; some even during the early leveling phase.