String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Language: JP EN FR DE
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Puppet Master » String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*
String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*
First Page 2 ... 31 32 33
 Asura.Fabiano
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Falsetto
Posts: 74
By Asura.Fabiano 2018-04-11 10:18:33
Link | Quote | Reply
 



>> Click Here to view the guide over at BG Wiki <<


Last Update: 26th April 2019

I'd like to give a big shout-out to all the Puppetmasters, old or new, who have been relentlessly sharing their PUP knowledge and findings online in order to help me write this guide.

Feel free to contact me here, in-game (Fabiano on Asura), or in private message for any updates, requests, or suggestions you think of!

Cheers!
[+]
 Asura.Fabiano
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Falsetto
Posts: 74
By Asura.Fabiano 2018-04-11 10:18:59
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Aerix said: »
Here's the Automaton Skillchain guide as requested--hope you guys like it!

YouTube Video Placeholder


Direct Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dXXatDoZMg
[+]
 Asura.Sirris
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Safiyyah
Posts: 258
By Asura.Sirris 2018-04-11 11:39:37
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Great job on this guide! I especially like the inclusion of 0/100/1200 JP automaton attachments for PUPs who are just starting on their journey.
[+]
 Asura.Halfmans
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3
By Asura.Halfmans 2018-04-11 11:45:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ahhh hell ya! Nice work guys! Thats an excellent guide thats sexy lookin too. Exactly what I needed as Im working on PUP atm.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 154
By flyingsquirrel 2018-04-11 18:01:23
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Very well done!

2 things i would just think about adding (looking at this at first glance) is a pet WS set and that tanking Taeon might also be acc/att/double attack/dt

A pet WS set does add a whole lotta damage to weaponskills. I think this is highly necessary.

While someone like capuchin says how great taeon with magic eva is, I think that the acc and double attack sets are much more usuable for every day gameplay pup. It allows some extra tanking while dpsing for both master and puppet in low man play (where pup really shines). For anything this set isn't good for, Rao is best (therefore magic eva and regen has no use)
The set would be really good with your bruiser attachment set~

Lets face it, puppet base magic evasion is crap and so adding more doesnt do as much as it would to the master.
[+]
 Cerberus.Goldenfoon
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34
By Cerberus.Goldenfoon 2018-04-11 20:21:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
This is a great resource! Thanks for taking the time to put it together!
[+]
 Asura.Fabiano
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Falsetto
Posts: 74
By Asura.Fabiano 2018-04-12 12:19:09
Link | Quote | Reply
 
flyingsquirrel said: »
Very well done!

2 things i would just think about adding (looking at this at first glance) is a pet WS set and that tanking Taeon might also be acc/att/double attack/dt

A pet WS set does add a whole lotta damage to weaponskills. I think this is highly necessary.

Thanks! :D

Definitely, I'd like to add some Pet WS sets, but have honestly not had enough testing with them to make a strong judgement call.

It's honestly really unfortunate that pretty much the only gearing options for Pet WS is augmented Herculean along with karagoz capello +1 (for FTP reliant WS's). I'm not even sure if the TP-Bonus from an Augmented dispersal mantle is worth losing the Automaton Lv+1 and Acc/Attack from Visucius's mantle, does anyone know off-hand? I've not tested it yet personally. Though maybe all the +Attack/R.Attack on Reforged Relic hat and body makes it worth considering over herc?


flyingsquirrel said: »
While someone like capuchin says how great taeon with magic eva is, I think that the acc and double attack sets are much more usuable for every day gameplay pup. It allows some extra tanking while dpsing for both master and puppet in low man play (where pup really shines). For anything this set isn't good for, Rao is best (therefore magic eva and regen has no use)
The set would be really good with your bruiser attachment set~

Lets face it, puppet base magic evasion is crap and so adding more doesnt do as much as it would to the master.

Right, you make a good point in that there is definitely some use in making more of a hybrid damage oriented & -DT taeon set for every day use. I'll add it to the Hybrid section when I get the chance to!
 Asura.Lunafreya
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Lunafreya
Posts: 239
By Asura.Lunafreya 2018-04-12 12:40:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
This is excellent. Well done.
[+]
 Bismarck.Jdeep
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: jdeep
Posts: 10
By Bismarck.Jdeep 2018-04-12 12:51:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Great job, thank you!
[+]
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2231
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-04-13 02:38:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Awesome work, I was honored to be asked to take a look. Well organized, and some of this stuff I've never seen laid out so nicely (for example, I love love love the master/puppet SC charts).

flyingsquirrel said: »
tanking Taeon might also be acc/att/double attack/dt
Quote:
While someone like capuchin says how great taeon with magic eva is, I think that the acc and double attack sets are much more usuable for every day gameplay pup.

Fair enough if you're doing lowman/solo stuff where the puppet is both your tank and a primary damage source. YMMV depending on how often you actually do that kind of stuff, but if you want to solo/duo some dangerous NMs it's viable. VD Ambuscade Poroggo is the only thing that comes to mind that I've done like this in the past ~year, but that's just me...

I don't really say Meva is that great, but it's better to me than the other fairly irrelevant options for the majority of tanking that I ever do on PUP. I typically use PUP tank for defense only, and other players do the damage. So for my applications I really don't care about acc/DA - I'm not very interested in trying to make my 1.2% of the parse go up to 1.3% to shave 2 seconds off a fight - would rather feed less TP, interrupt less SCs, and maybe get a couple resists on spells or annoying enfeebles.

Again though, somewhat YMMV and I definitely have no issue suggesting Pet: DT/DA/Acc Taeon as a viable option (I have 3 pieces myself, that I use rarely). If you frequently do stuff like PUP duos where the puppets are tanking and DDing with Overdrive, you might prioritize differently and use it more often.
Offline
Posts: 154
By flyingsquirrel 2018-04-13 04:11:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
In the guide you say to visit the burden page for info on it, but in simple words if you wanted to explain it to a brand new pup I would explain it this way.

Think of each elemental maneuver as a glass of water.
Burden is like filling glasses with water, and each glass has a hole at the bottom for water to slowly escape.
If you use fire maneuver, you pour a decent amount of water into the fire glass, and a little bit into every other glass. If you constantly use them same maneuver, more water will fill that glass than can be slowly come out of the hole at the bottom. This will cause the glass to overflow (overload)

Deus ex starts with pretty full glasses
Budden- gear makes the amount of water per pour less

It doesn't look very clean written down on paper like this, but a picture of this would explain overload so quickly. This is how my brother taught me overload when pup first came out, and no data was found online
[+]
Offline
Posts: 154
By flyingsquirrel 2018-04-18 20:07:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Fabiano said: »
flyingsquirrel said: »
Very well done!

2 things i would just think about adding (looking at this at first glance) is a pet WS set and that tanking Taeon might also be acc/att/double attack/dt

A pet WS set does add a whole lotta damage to weaponskills. I think this is highly necessary.

Thanks! :D

Definitely, I'd like to add some Pet WS sets, but have honestly not had enough testing with them to make a strong judgement call.

It's honestly really unfortunate that pretty much the only gearing options for Pet WS is augmented Herculean along with karagoz capello +1 (for FTP reliant WS's). I'm not even sure if the TP-Bonus from an Augmented dispersal mantle is worth losing the Automaton Lv+1 and Acc/Attack from Visucius's mantle, does anyone know off-hand? I've not tested it yet personally. Though maybe all the +Attack/R.Attack on Reforged Relic hat and body makes it worth considering over herc?

Sorry I forgot to respond to the ws sets.
Yes tp+ on dispersal is great. That, Karagoz capello and then full pet skill+ gear.(Karagoz hands, Karagoz legs, Naga feet, pitre+3 body) Don't worry about augmenting herc, try out skill + gear and see how you like it.

Also, on that note, I haven't looked at it, but does anyone know how much skill+ gnafrons give? Probably an easy test,and I'm currently using that, but escha zitah h2h give 20 skill (don't have them yet) so I haven't bothered to look at it
Can't get on game for a bit, but this question is itching me

Edit: gnafrons give 20 skill.... So escha h2h or gnafrons should both be fine for pet ws h2h
[+]
 Asura.Fabiano
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Falsetto
Posts: 74
By Asura.Fabiano 2018-04-19 15:39:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
flyingsquirrel said: »
Asura.Fabiano said: »
flyingsquirrel said: »
Very well done!

2 things i would just think about adding (looking at this at first glance) is a pet WS set and that tanking Taeon might also be acc/att/double attack/dt

A pet WS set does add a whole lotta damage to weaponskills. I think this is highly necessary.

Thanks! :D

Definitely, I'd like to add some Pet WS sets, but have honestly not had enough testing with them to make a strong judgement call.

It's honestly really unfortunate that pretty much the only gearing options for Pet WS is augmented Herculean along with karagoz capello +1 (for FTP reliant WS's). I'm not even sure if the TP-Bonus from an Augmented dispersal mantle is worth losing the Automaton Lv+1 and Acc/Attack from Visucius's mantle, does anyone know off-hand? I've not tested it yet personally. Though maybe all the +Attack/R.Attack on Reforged Relic hat and body makes it worth considering over herc?

Sorry I forgot to respond to the ws sets.
Yes tp+ on dispersal is great. That, Karagoz capello and then full pet skill+ gear.(Karagoz hands, Karagoz legs, Naga feet, pitre+3 body) Don't worry about augmenting herc, try out skill + gear and see how you like it.

Also, on that note, I haven't looked at it, but does anyone know how much skill+ gnafrons give? Probably an easy test,and I'm currently using that, but escha zitah h2h give 20 skill (don't have them yet) so I haven't bothered to look at it
Can't get on game for a bit, but this question is itching me

Edit: gnafrons give 20 skill.... So escha h2h or gnafrons should both be fine for pet ws h2h

Yes!

I've been toiling away on some updated Pet WS sets and talking to some other PUP's. Like you mentioned, along with personal testing, it showed Dispersal was definitely an improvement over Visucius's for a WS like Arcuballista. I'll be updating the guide later this week and keeping you guys posted when I do!


EDIT: That reminds me -- Does anyone have a PUP Gearswap LUA that they would like to share? It's been a frequently asked question from me since the guide went up, and honestly my LUA is really a mess, and I'm not exactly savvy when it comes to GS.

While I know there are issues with Gearswap detecting and swapping to Pet WS gear in time, I'm wondering if it's possible to make Gearswap automatically switch to Pet-WS set when your Automaton is above 1000 TP, then switch back to Pet Store-TP set afterward. Does anyone know how to do this?
 Shiva.Siviard
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Siviard
Posts: 1167
By Shiva.Siviard 2018-04-19 22:39:49
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Fabiano said: »
flyingsquirrel said: »
Asura.Fabiano said: »
flyingsquirrel said: »
Very well done!

2 things i would just think about adding (looking at this at first glance) is a pet WS set and that tanking Taeon might also be acc/att/double attack/dt

A pet WS set does add a whole lotta damage to weaponskills. I think this is highly necessary.

Thanks! :D

Definitely, I'd like to add some Pet WS sets, but have honestly not had enough testing with them to make a strong judgement call.

It's honestly really unfortunate that pretty much the only gearing options for Pet WS is augmented Herculean along with karagoz capello +1 (for FTP reliant WS's). I'm not even sure if the TP-Bonus from an Augmented dispersal mantle is worth losing the Automaton Lv+1 and Acc/Attack from Visucius's mantle, does anyone know off-hand? I've not tested it yet personally. Though maybe all the +Attack/R.Attack on Reforged Relic hat and body makes it worth considering over herc?

Sorry I forgot to respond to the ws sets.
Yes tp+ on dispersal is great. That, Karagoz capello and then full pet skill+ gear.(Karagoz hands, Karagoz legs, Naga feet, pitre+3 body) Don't worry about augmenting herc, try out skill + gear and see how you like it.

Also, on that note, I haven't looked at it, but does anyone know how much skill+ gnafrons give? Probably an easy test,and I'm currently using that, but escha zitah h2h give 20 skill (don't have them yet) so I haven't bothered to look at it
Can't get on game for a bit, but this question is itching me

Edit: gnafrons give 20 skill.... So escha h2h or gnafrons should both be fine for pet ws h2h

Yes!

I've been toiling away on some updated Pet WS sets and talking to some other PUP's. Like you mentioned, along with personal testing, it showed Dispersal was definitely an improvement over Visucius's for a WS like Arcuballista. I'll be updating the guide later this week and keeping you guys posted when I do!


EDIT: That reminds me -- Does anyone have a PUP Gearswap LUA that they would like to share? It's been a frequently asked question from me since the guide went up, and honestly my LUA is really a mess, and I'm not exactly savvy when it comes to GS.

While I know there are issues with Gearswap detecting and swapping to Pet WS gear in time, I'm wondering if it's possible to make Gearswap automatically switch to Pet-WS set when your Automaton is above 1000 TP, then switch back to Pet Store-TP set afterward. Does anyone know how to do this?

I think Trulusia had one, but I think he's since quit FFXI. Maybe Onionknight on Shiva might have one. His PUP is pretty good too. On par with Dasva's PUP.
Offline
By clearlyamule 2018-04-19 23:04:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You could with some difficulty math out Arcuballista dmg. I say some because the stats SE gave us for at the very least ranged ws are all wrong in so many ways though there is some testing on how they actually work over on bg (and cross posted as a bug that's been accepted for several months now). Might depend on exact conditions though.

I don't GS but it is mechanically setup similar to spellcast and ashitacast so I assume there is a section for idle sets and pettp variables? If so should be easy to put an idle sets for various tp points in there
Offline
Posts: 606
By Nariont 2018-04-20 05:08:37
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I just used equipsets for pet ws, after it fires off gs swaps you back to whatever your set was proor. Relying of tp% triggers just never sat right with me, specially if i was engaged as theres a few times puppet would sit on tp longer than i liked
 Ragnarok.Hammerskin
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8
By Ragnarok.Hammerskin 2018-04-20 09:13:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
How did the sources that calculated pet -DT %'s test their finds? The guide states that VE frame with AP IV, both OFs and 1 light maneuver is -45% PDT, shouldn't it be -30%?

I did my own tests using 1K needles method, and because of gear rounding I'm actually having to equip closer to -39% DT gear to cap instead of the stated -21% in the guide.

Stout servant + VE should be ~21.5, AP IV + OF I/II + light should be ( ~21.5 + ~30 ) = ~51.5, leaving 36 % to cap in gear, then rounding down on all counts requires me to equip ~39%.

Not bashing the guide or anything, it's actually amazing, I just want to know if there's something I'm missing.
[+]
 Asura.Fabiano
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Falsetto
Posts: 74
By Asura.Fabiano 2018-04-20 10:02:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ragnarok.Hammerskin said: »
How did the sources that calculated pet -DT %'s test their finds? The guide states that VE frame with AP IV, both OFs and 1 light maneuver is -45% PDT, shouldn't it be -30%?

I did my own tests using 1K needles method, and because of gear rounding I'm actually having to equip closer to -39% DT gear to cap instead of the stated -21% in the guide.

Stout servant + VE should be ~21.5, AP IV + OF I/II + light should be ( ~21.5 + ~30 ) = ~51.5, leaving 36 % to cap in gear, then rounding down on all counts requires me to equip ~39%.

Not bashing the guide or anything, it's actually amazing, I just want to know if there's something I'm missing.

Ahhh! you are absolutely correct, thanks for pointing this out.

I see now in my original draft where I made this error, my original values for AP4 were slightly off. I'll make the correction right away.

EDIT: Corrected! Fixed values for tanking methods.
Method 1: AP4+OFI+II+Light Maneuver = -30% PDT (need 36% for cap)
Method 2: AP4+OFI+II+Light&Earth Maneuver = -37.5% PDT (need 28.5% for cap)
Method 3: AP4+AP3+OFI+II+Light Maneuver = -52.5% PDT (need 13.5% for cap)

Thanks again :)

If anyone else see's any other errors in the guide, feel free to let me know!
 Ragnarok.Hammerskin
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8
By Ragnarok.Hammerskin 2018-04-20 10:16:50
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Good, I thought I was losing my mind.. I am still new to pup, been following your guide, among others, and have been pretty successful thus far. Those values also hold true for SS frame correct?
[+]
 Asura.Fabiano
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Falsetto
Posts: 74
By Asura.Fabiano 2018-04-20 10:39:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ragnarok.Hammerskin said: »
Good, I thought I was losing my mind.. I am still new to pup, been following your guide, among others, and have been pretty successful thus far. Those values also hold true for SS frame correct?

Yep, and Harlequin needs an additional +6.25% in gear, and Stormwaker needs +12.5% in gear to cap. I'll add that into the tanking methods as well.

EDIT: Added!
Offline
By clearlyamule 2018-04-20 10:46:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ragnarok.Hammerskin said: »
How did the sources that calculated pet -DT %'s test their finds? The guide states that VE frame with AP IV, both OFs and 1 light maneuver is -45% PDT, shouldn't it be -30%?
A long time ago wikis used to say AP IV base pdt was 30% but never was any testing to back it up. It's been fixed for awhile now but damage was done and those numbers got carried into a lot of things and repeated
 Ragnarok.Hammerskin
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8
By Ragnarok.Hammerskin 2018-04-20 11:04:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
clearlyamule said: »
Ragnarok.Hammerskin said: »
How did the sources that calculated pet -DT %'s test their finds? The guide states that VE frame with AP IV, both OFs and 1 light maneuver is -45% PDT, shouldn't it be -30%?
A long time ago wikis used to say AP IV base pdt was 30% but never was any testing to back it up. It's been fixed for awhile now but damage was done and those numbers got carried into a lot of things and repeated


I see, thanks! If there's one thing higher education has taught me, it's that wiki isn't a valid source haha.
 Asura.Fabiano
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Falsetto
Posts: 74
By Asura.Fabiano 2018-04-24 12:15:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
So i've been doing some testing on Pet WS sets, particularly looking at maximizing my Arcuballista damage. After checking some posts here (Thanks flyingsquirrel!), and talking with other PUP's, ended up with this;
ItemSet 358511
Naga Kyahan Path:D (Pet: HP+100, Pet: Acc+25, Pet: Att+25)
Dispersal Mantle Augment = Pet:TP Bonus+500

While I don't have this exact set (both my rings are NQ and missing Enmerkar) I've actually had some very impressive results with this set last night. piece of kusamochi with Fire/Fire/Light Maneuvers and depending on TP was firing off 12k~16k Arcuballistas on Naphula (T2 Ru'Aun) at a very high consistency (I even saw some spikes of ~18k damage). In retrospect, I didn't even test out using a flame holder, guess I'll try that out soon. +53 Automaton Skills in this set.

In theory, some well augmented Herculean (Pet:+15 DEX/R.Attack) would also serve well in place of Karagoz+1 Gloves, Pants, and the Naga Kyahan. Similarly, an Ohrmazd as well, augmented for Pet:TP Bonus+200 & R.Atk/R.Acc should be better? Condemners with Pet:+20 DEX maybe?

The results were actually really inspiring, and makes me look forward to Empyrean +2/+3 gear for PUP in the future.


Thoughts? Anyone know of other ways to edge out the Auto's WS damage even further?
[+]
Offline
Posts: 606
By Nariont 2018-04-24 12:29:13
Link | Quote | Reply
 
you about hit any of the upgrades that could be suggested, a properly augmented set of herc goes a long way but really takes a toll on you if you hate the random augment game, as well as general inventory. And yes, flame holder helps a lot if you can keep the fires up and it doesnt cause it to use the wrong WS because you were a second too slow to get the right WS off.

EDIT: Guess I should add that this is mainly for ranged WS, for VE/Harle WS youd do similar in augments but also try to fit in Pet: DA/crit which is a nightmare in itself when you're already trying to perfect the stat+/acc/atk/etc, but that's Oseem for ya. And obviously dont want tp+ on WS like bone crusher or armor shatterer.

EDIT2: strike crit rate, forgot crits do rather minimal for pets as opposed to players
[+]
 Shiva.Siviard
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Siviard
Posts: 1167
By Shiva.Siviard 2018-04-24 16:34:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Fabiano said: »
So i've been doing some testing on Pet WS sets, particularly looking at maximizing my Arcuballista damage. After checking some posts here (Thanks flyingsquirrel!), and talking with other PUP's, ended up with this;
ItemSet 358511
Naga Kyahan Path:D (Pet: HP+100, Pet: Acc+25, Pet: Att+25)
Dispersal Mantle Augment = Pet:TP Bonus+500

While I don't have this exact set (both my rings are NQ and missing Enmerkar) I've actually had some very impressive results with this set last night. piece of kusamochi with Fire/Fire/Light Maneuvers and depending on TP was firing off 12k~16k Arcuballistas on Naphula (T2 Ru'Aun) at a very high consistency (I even saw some spikes of ~18k damage). In retrospect, I didn't even test out using a flame holder, guess I'll try that out soon. +53 Automaton Skills in this set.

In theory, some well augmented Herculean (Pet:+15 DEX/R.Attack) would also serve well in place of Karagoz+1 Gloves, Pants, and the Naga Kyahan. Similarly, an Ohrmazd as well, augmented for Pet:TP Bonus+200 & R.Atk/R.Acc should be better? Condemners with Pet:+20 DEX maybe?

The results were actually really inspiring, and makes me look forward to Empyrean +2/+3 gear for PUP in the future.


Thoughts? Anyone know of other ways to edge out the Auto's WS damage even further?

My question regarding your choice of cape. How much are you giving up in terms of attack by giving up on the Automaton Level +1 from the Ambuscade cape? Assuming fully augmented, of course.
Offline
Posts: 606
By Nariont 2018-04-24 17:22:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
for arc/daze/other WS with damage varies with TP the +500 tp bonus is more than enough to cover the loss of pet level from what i tested back when i played, biggest concern is losing accuracy more than it is attack.
[+]
 Asura.Fabiano
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Falsetto
Posts: 74
By Asura.Fabiano 2018-04-24 17:29:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Shiva.Siviard said: »
My question regarding your choice of cape. How much are you giving up in terms of attack by giving up on the Automaton Level +1 from the Ambuscade cape? Assuming fully augmented, of course.

I had the same question, and the conclusion was "not much."

The damage increase on Arcuballista from having the Pet: TP-Bonus+500 vs. not having it was noticeably significant. Ditto for Karagoz Capello +1 -- the combined total of +1050 TP Bonus between both items is too good to pass up.
Offline
Posts: 127
By monkey33333333 2018-04-25 23:08:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
the Shulmanu Collar would that be better for WS on the pet?
First Page 2 ... 31 32 33