Comeuppances

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Comeuppances
 Asura.Dagget
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By Asura.Dagget 2018-03-12 20:20:21
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Hey guys, whats the opinion on Comeuppances? How do they hold up to other options, specifically vs. Denouements as these are the two options I have when master dpsing.

Thanks
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By flyingsquirrel 2018-03-12 20:39:52
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The only two things that comeuppances would have on denouements are:
Lower delay
Subtle blow
20STR

The lower delay doesnt really help because higher delay might make it more beneficial to be able to use some martial arts in your sets (mache/mache+1) if you are not getting tons of magical haste from brd/geo/haste2 etc. I wish i could give you the actual amount of martial arts needed for for each delay weapon and buffs given, but I'm lost in that field and I just kind of eyeball it.
quad would win vs double attack


I would rather use the Denouements due to its utility (pet regen/refresh, colossal blow fun, resistance +).
The DPS output wont very an overwhelming amount between the two h2h though..

Your on pup anyways, play to your playstyle, we won't be winning any parses no matter what we do haha.
 Asura.Dagget
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By Asura.Dagget 2018-03-12 21:13:55
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Thanks for the input. I couldnt find much info on Come's so I wanted to get a second opinion. Think I'll stick with Deno's for now
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-03-12 22:28:12
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Comeuppances/+1 utterly destroy Denouements. They're basically an RMEA-level weapon, reasonably so since they're from one of the toughest mobs in the game (but bless that UNM dial...).

Easily the best non-RMEA H2H weapon for master only (or for MNKs). Jolt Counters/+1 are the other best non-RMEA master-only choice.

Now, if you're on PUP and also using a DD puppet, you may get better results out of Ohtas than anything except Kenkonken. Pet haste and massive accuracy for master and puppet is nice when you're using Sharpshot/Valoredge frames, and sacrificing some master DPS to keep the puppet at capped haste and adding damage is generally worthwhile.

flyingsquirrel said: »
The lower delay doesnt really help because higher delay might make it more beneficial to be able to use some martial arts in your sets (mache/mache+1) if you are not getting tons of magical haste from brd/geo/haste2 etc.

No. The far lower delay with almost the same DMG (and way more STR on Comeuppances) = lots more WS, and stronger WS.

There really aren't any great Martial Arts swaps that don't give up more stats than you would make back with a non-MA option... and that's IF you even need MA to cap delay reduction depending on your buffs.
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 Asura.Dagget
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By Asura.Dagget 2018-03-21 18:41:41
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Comeuppances/+1 utterly destroy Denouements. They're basically an RMEA-level weapon, reasonably so since they're from one of the toughest mobs in the game (but bless that UNM dial...).

Easily the best non-RMEA H2H weapon for master only (or for MNKs). Jolt Counters/+1 are the other best non-RMEA master-only choice.

Now, if you're on PUP and also using a DD puppet, you may get better results out of Ohtas than anything except Kenkonken. Pet haste and massive accuracy for master and puppet is nice when you're using Sharpshot/Valoredge frames, and sacrificing some master DPS to keep the puppet at capped haste and adding damage is generally worthwhile.

flyingsquirrel said: »
The lower delay doesnt really help because higher delay might make it more beneficial to be able to use some martial arts in your sets (mache/mache+1) if you are not getting tons of magical haste from brd/geo/haste2 etc.

No. The far lower delay with almost the same DMG (and way more STR on Comeuppances) = lots more WS, and stronger WS.

There really aren't any great Martial Arts swaps that don't give up more stats than you would make back with a non-MA option... and that's IF you even need MA to cap delay reduction depending on your buffs.

Thanks man, I got lucky and got the Comeupp's from a special dial so I think I'll buy up the mats needed to +1 them and keep them for master only weapons. I thought they'd be good coming from that UNM.
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By Nyarlko 2018-03-21 19:29:38
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While using Comeuppances +1 (delay +79), any MA (from all sources) over 201 will go over cap when gear/magic haste capped and reduce your TP gain. A mastered PUP will have MA+200 baseline, and there is some rounding/flooring involved, so all MA+ should be avoided in group/haste-capped situations. A mastered MNK on the other hand has MA+210, so any weapon with delay less than +104 will come with a built-in TP penalty. :(

There is an easy way to figure out how much MA you want when haste capped. (Though it may be off by MA+1 depending on exact delay value and flooring.)

floor((480+(weapon delay))*.36) = MA limit

Anything over the "MA limit" will start to lower your TP w/o any benefit, when in a haste capped situation.

I got mine from Unity Dial too. ^^
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 Asura.Dagget
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By Asura.Dagget 2018-03-21 20:40:58
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Thats great to know, thank you.
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By flyingsquirrel 2018-03-21 23:22:40
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Magic haste cap = haste 2 and 2 marches? Or is also geo buffs and sub dnc needed to cap magical haste
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By Nyarlko 2018-03-22 00:55:42
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flyingsquirrel said: »
Magic haste cap = haste 2 and 2 marches? Or is also geo buffs and sub dnc needed to cap magical haste

Generally, Haste II + anything that is a Haste I equivalent (Haste, Victory March, Mighty Guard, etc.) will be enough to cap you out. Geo/Indi-Haste is normally a bit more than Haste II (assuming 900skill and Dunna,) so would definitely cap out if you have another Haste effect up.

Haste Samba is Job Ability haste, not magic haste, and is not needed at all for mastered DW/H2H jobs when they are gear+magic capped. As far as I can tell, all of us are riding the line to begin with at that point, so generally DW/MA should be used very sparingly if at all.
 Bismarck.Speedyjim
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By Bismarck.Speedyjim 2018-03-22 01:17:36
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flyingsquirrel said: »
Magic haste cap = haste 2 and 2 marches? Or is also geo buffs and sub dnc needed to cap magical haste
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Attack_Speed

Magic Haste:
Haste (15%), Haste II (30%), Hastega (15%), Hastega II (30%),
Refueling (10%), Animating Wail (15%), Mighty Guard (15%), Erratic Flutter (30%),
Advancing March (~10.55~18.95%), Victory March (~15.92~28.61%), Honor March (~12.30-16.99%)
Indi-Haste / Geo-Haste, (~2.4~40.9%)
Embrava (up to 25.9%)

Job Ability Haste:
Hasso (10%), Haste Samba (5~10%), Last Resort (15~25%)
Catastrophe with Apocalypse iLv119 III (10%), Wyvern (2%~10%)
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