Ukonvasara V. Conqueror

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ukonvasara v. conqueror
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By Kooljack 2013-11-01 00:25:58
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ukonvasara V. conqueror ilvl compareable ratio as they are now; let this thread be for those who want too speculate now;0 and also for when the real stats are available for testing we can compare the two weapons side by side. Thank you for the thoughts. trying too see where i want too build a mythic or 99 emperyeon please remind me the benefits when; comparing them between all the different contents, even better. thank you
 Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-11-01 01:41:22
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1. Unlock Ukko's Fury
2. Make Conqueror
3. Win
[+]
 Asura.Izilder
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By Asura.Izilder 2013-11-01 03:40:55
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what about 99 Ukon ?? ;;
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-11-01 04:45:05
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it's no contest, conqueror with ukko's will be the best by miles for WAR(and likely all DD) going by any reasonable stat estimation
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 06:43:02
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Not that I doubt it'll be a powerful combination, but has anyone really bothered to validate that claim? Ukko's isn't what it used to be, and AM3 maintenance still depends on unrealistically perfect timing- particularly when the job doesn't have any appreciable instant-TP ability.

Without doing any real work, I imagine Conqueror will be WAR's best weapon, but that Ukko's will still be pretty situational and WAR won't have landslide victories over every other job.
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-11-01 06:49:28
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I did some non-serious spreadsheeting a few days back.

If you're in a high buff situation (does anyone use WAR any other time?) Ukko's is going to be the best if you have Blood Rage and/or Berserk up. Berserk would normally push towards Upheaval, but Conqueror enhances it with Critical Hit Rate.

No one can say anything about the relative strengths of RMEs until we actually see them, but at the moment I think the safe money is on Conqueror.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 06:52:55
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Fair enough.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 07:03:23
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Jesus, hadn't looked at the 99Conqueror page in ages. 14% crit. rate with the augmented Berserk is nuts.

Time to do assaults :(
 
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-11-01 07:11:13
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Yeah, to be clear, I scaled the estimated sword stats from way-back-when for GA, gave them 242 skill, and did the spreadsheeting. It came out with Ukon something like 20% behind free-AM3 Conqueror regardless which WS Conqueror was using. In some situations Upheaval was better, but it seems like Ukko's will have a significant place in a Conqueror's arsenal as well.
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By Asura.Izilder 2013-11-01 07:13:34
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So no point getting out my 99 Uko vs current Upheaval wars?
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-11-01 07:16:15
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When it's iL119, Ukon will still lead over every non-mythic
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By Sylph.Guebotermico 2013-11-01 08:25:00
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want to make a secound mythic and this is realy tempting me. i was thinking for one of these Conqueror Glanzfaust or Koga breaking my head trying to pick from these. if you guys had to pick 1 from these to work on first and you play mnk sam war alot since lv 75 untill now what weapon would you do first and why? any thoughs?
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By pchan 2013-11-01 08:36:48
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I did some non-serious spreadsheeting a few days back.

If you're in a high buff situation (does anyone use WAR any other time?) Ukko's is going to be the best if you have Blood Rage and/or Berserk up. Berserk would normally push towards Upheaval, but Conqueror enhances it with Critical Hit Rate.

No one can say anything about the relative strengths of RMEs until we actually see them, but at the moment I think the safe money is on Conqueror.

Conqueror was already "good" during AM3 pre adoulin , no surprise here. It's the same for glanzfaust if they keep the same-ish damage as spharai.

from my thread thread :


pup
DPS : 283.454789
monk
DPS : 414.254493, spharai : 385.504364
glanz
DPS : shijin : 409.718392, ascetic : 410.843368
ryunohige
DPS : 380.229445, relic : 242.988904
war
DPS : 441.890634
conqueror
DPS : 401.622653
koga
DPS : 453.435146
liberator
DPS : 345.282786
ragnarok
DPS : 376.139636
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By Ragnarok.Azryel 2013-11-01 10:50:53
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Sylph.Guebotermico said: »
i was thinking for one of these Conqueror Glanzfaust or Koga

There’s no doubt in my mind that an Ukko’s spamming Conqueror is going to be insane, especially with the right buffs and enhanced Berserk, but a Fudo Koga could also be highly entertaining… I personally enjoy playing SAM more than WAR, but that’s just me, and that being said I’d lean towards the Koga- the TP overflow is ridiculous on those things, not to mention the near effortlessness of keeping AM3 up.
[+]
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2013-11-01 11:00:24
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Sylph.Guebotermico said: »
want to make a secound mythic and this is realy tempting me. i was thinking for one of these Conqueror Glanzfaust or Koga breaking my head trying to pick from these. if you guys had to pick 1 from these to work on first and you play mnk sam war alot since lv 75 untill now what weapon would you do first and why? any thoughs?
Work hard play hard son! Just put in the work. Almost done with my Burt then doing dagger/conquerer oh boyyyy can't wait...supply of alex is dismal tho....
[+]
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2013-11-01 11:17:13
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Ragnarok.Azryel said: »
Sylph.Guebotermico said: »
i was thinking for one of these Conqueror Glanzfaust or Koga

There’s no doubt in my mind that an Ukko’s spamming Conqueror is going to be insane, especially with the right buffs and enhanced Berserk, but a Fudo Koga could also be highly entertaining… I personally enjoy playing SAM more than WAR, but that’s just me, and that being said I’d lean towards the Koga- the TP overflow is ridiculous on those things, not to mention the near effortlessness of keeping AM3 up.
I'd think Koga would see more application than conqueror simply due to the ease of keeping AM up. There are a lot of situations where you lose a lot of DPS from keeping AM3 up on jobs without instant TP.
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2013-11-01 11:21:14
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Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
Ragnarok.Azryel said: »
Sylph.Guebotermico said: »
i was thinking for one of these Conqueror Glanzfaust or Koga

There’s no doubt in my mind that an Ukko’s spamming Conqueror is going to be insane, especially with the right buffs and enhanced Berserk, but a Fudo Koga could also be highly entertaining… I personally enjoy playing SAM more than WAR, but that’s just me, and that being said I’d lean towards the Koga- the TP overflow is ridiculous on those things, not to mention the near effortlessness of keeping AM3 up.
I'd think Koga would see more application than conqueror simply due to the ease of keeping AM up. There are a lot of situations where you lose a lot of DPS from keeping AM3 up on jobs without instant TP.
With meditate and g horn marchs there should never been a time AM3 is down(On WAR). At 2 minutes 45 seconds just save for 300 and ur set. Is what I do with Liberator.
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2013-11-01 11:38:11
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Yeah, but there are plenty of times where you simply can't do that. Not having a mob as AM is wearing off, lower buffs, etc. I'm not saying it won't be amazing, I'm just saying koga is easier to use.
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-11-01 11:38:46
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Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
I'd think Koga would see more application than conqueror simply due to the ease of keeping AM up. There are a lot of situations where you lose a lot of DPS from keeping AM3 up on jobs without instant TP.

That's true, but with such a high DA and crit rate, a 5hit build and a crap ton of damage coming from melee damage, WAR doesn't lose out as much as many would think from building AM3.

I had already started using Warrior's Charge before fights to build TP faster when AM3 was down, so the new WAR SP also has me excited as a means to build AM3 even faster for those times when you start a new NM with AM3 down and low TP.
[+]
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-11-01 12:37:30
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Jesus, hadn't looked at the 99Conqueror page in ages. 14% crit. rate with the augmented Berserk is nuts.
yeah, that's the sexy part!
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By pchan 2013-11-01 13:09:00
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If you want your AM3 to be ready 99% of the time when the 3 minutes wears off you need to stop using WS @ 24 seconds left (or prior to this). Don't mix this with an average number. I counted this time for several jobs here. The average time to build 300 tp doesn't make sense since there will be times where AM3 wear off when you don't have 300 TP left.
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-11-01 13:37:19
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With an average of 1.8 hits/round with AM3 up, it takes 8-9 rounds to get 300% TP with a 5hit, which is 15-16 seconds to get 300% TP. Where is 24 seconds coming from? Anyways, my point was that WAR loses the least of any of those jobs since their melee damage remains high even without AM3.

As was pointed out/proven in the thread you linked, all of those numbers are highly suspicious. Great example is DRG, which takes 1/2 the time in practice to rebuild AM3.
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By pchan 2013-11-01 14:10:22
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I don't count the average, read my thread. half of the time you will not have AM3 ready @ 300TP...
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2013-11-01 15:07:03
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pchan said: »
I don't count the average, read my thread.

Read the thread you linked, and you failed to ever respond to people who gave you the time of day. Haste values, buffs, etc, none of it was mentioned. Your 300% TP times are highly suspect, considering you didn't give any real info about these "simulations" other than "I ran the numbers."

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By Sylph.Valleth 2013-11-01 15:38:40
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Sylph.Guebotermico said: »
want to make a secound mythic and this is realy tempting me. i was thinking for one of these Conqueror Glanzfaust or Koga breaking my head trying to pick from these. if you guys had to pick 1 from these to work on first and you play mnk sam war alot since lv 75 untill now what weapon would you do first and why? any thoughs?

My "thoughs"

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By pchan 2013-11-01 16:30:03
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Bahamut.Malothar said: »
pchan said: »
I don't count the average, read my thread.

Read the thread you linked, and you failed to ever respond to people who gave you the time of day. Haste values, buffs, etc, none of it was mentioned. Your 300% TP times are highly suspect, considering you didn't give any real info about these "simulations" other than "I ran the numbers."


All buffs value are given, the problem is ppl like you that pop in threads without reading skillz and that throw random comment about values being suspect.
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2013-11-01 16:46:23
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pchan said: »
All buffs value are given, the problem is ppl like you that pop in threads without reading skillz and that throw random comment about values being suspect.

pchan said:
In the perspective of maintaining AM3 with a mythic, I have done some large simulations and they seem to give the following results. The time listed is the time at which you need to stop doing WS to get 300 TP about right as AM3 wear off. You will end up with less than 300 TP less than 1% of the time with the following numbers. For example if "30 seconds" is listed you need to stop spamming WS 30 sec before AM3 wears off.

KKK : 43 seconds.
Glanzfaust : 35 seconds.
Ryunohige : 22 seconds.
Conqueror : 24 seconds.
Koga : 17 seconds.
liberator : 22 seconds.

Even if you are in the middle of building TP you should wait this amount of time unless you want to play with luck. For instance if you're on liberator DRK and stop only 15 sec before it wears off, instead of 22, you will not have 300 tp 33% of the time. First estimation shows that the dps loss is surprisingly minimal (~5%) accross all job except SAM which seems to be ~8%.

You were saying?
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By pchan 2013-11-01 16:53:08
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I'm saying you can't read a thread now go back to your cave.
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