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Are We Bards Awesome, or just Stagnating?
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-10-08 20:43:17
BRD really only shines in single-party situations where accuracy or MP are serious issues which, granted, probably do exist, but they're far from the norm
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-10-08 20:46:04
But again- that's not to say that everyone should suddenly stop using/inviting BRD, it just means there's no legitimate reason for preferring it outside of extreme circumstances. The difference is paltry in either direction
Bismarck.Ariyon
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 383
By Bismarck.Ariyon 2014-10-08 20:48:04
Being in range is a boon, not a detriment. You're increasing the MP return of curaga
I never took WHM higher than subjob level, and that was back before they even got the Afflatus JAs, so I'm not too familiar with how it performs nowadays.
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-10-08 20:49:42
No problem. AF3+2 legs refund MP based on the amount cured, so the more people safely in melee range, the better
Bismarck.Ariyon
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 383
By Bismarck.Ariyon 2014-10-08 20:53:08
I see. Then yeah, I'd say having an extra body in range would definitely be a good thing.
More than anything though, I'd say GEO has made it so that people can no longer half-*** BRD just for the sake of getting invites. A capped skill GEO with mediocre gear would outdo a BRD with capped skill and no G.Horn/Daur just because GEO doesn't need anything else to reach its maximum potential.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2014-10-08 21:01:47
The thing is you aren't really competing with the first Geo, you should really always have 1 Geo for Fury/Frailty. It's the second spot you are competing for (maybe even the 3rd) where you have either Geo bringing Haste+Vex (or Accuracy) or Brd bringing Marchx2 + Min (or Madrigal). It's super situational too, if you don't need Vex or Accuracy you have to use either really weak spells (Like Indi-STR) or survival spells like wilt. Entrust made it even more situational as you can add in another bubble on mobs that may need a specific buff like Vex or Torpor.
Lakshmi.Amymy
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 881
By Lakshmi.Amymy 2014-10-09 06:33:25
The thing is you aren't really competing with the first Geo, you should really always have 1 Geo for Fury/Frailty. It's the second spot you are competing for (maybe even the 3rd) where you have either Geo bringing Haste+Vex (or Accuracy) or Brd bringing Marchx2 + Min (or Madrigal). It's super situational too, if you don't need Vex or Accuracy you have to use either really weak spells (Like Indi-STR) or survival spells like wilt. Entrust made it even more situational as you can add in another bubble on mobs that may need a specific buff like Vex or Torpor.
When I made daurabla 90 they released the 3 song instrument when I make ghorn they came out with skirmish flute now just when I am 75 percent done with daurabla 99 they gave geo entrust. At least this time I have the option of trading it in or trying to sell it and just gear geo.
Decisions decisions. =D
Well how does a 4 song Bard that cost 500 million or more to make stack up with a regular geo? That's my question.
By Crevox 2014-10-09 06:55:39
Entrust does not receive the full benefit of your gear, and thus is not as potent as your first two abilities.
It's not nearly as good as it seemed like it would be.
Bismarck.Ariyon
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 383
By Bismarck.Ariyon 2014-10-09 21:14:38
Entrust does not receive the full benefit of your gear, and thus is not as potent as your first two abilities.
It's not nearly as good as it seemed like it would be. Is anything SE gives us ever as good as the patch notes make it sound?
By Crevox 2014-10-10 06:55:12
Entrust does not receive the full benefit of your gear, and thus is not as potent as your first two abilities.
It's not nearly as good as it seemed like it would be. Is anything SE gives us ever as good as the patch notes make it sound?
Well, I personally believed it would be a replacement for your personal Indi, simply allowing you to put your own on someone else. The fact that it lets you have 3 bubbles means it is far better than I originally imagined.
Regardless, it does have a detriment, which balances it and makes it less stupid and OP than I thought it was going to be when I heard it lets you have 3 bubbles. Still, it could be a bug, knowing SE.
Sylph.Feary
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 455
By Sylph.Feary 2014-10-12 13:35:47
S.E does a good enough job with job balance maintaining job vs job, brd will always be relevant, wanted and used. however what it comes down to is content. if you need the job, you will need the job.
so we should ok as long as they dont bring back content like vw and dun dun dun abyssea. which did brd in with atmas and /brd to proc.
yes buff jobs were always there and a benefit but not necessary and when that happens...
we bards know how dark of period that was.
Carbuncle.Bukadan
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 280
By Carbuncle.Bukadan 2014-10-18 23:08:08
it would be offensive if they high tiered abyssea;;;;;;
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 943
By Odin.Calipso 2014-10-19 00:20:05
The thing is you aren't really competing with the first Geo, you should really always have 1 Geo for Fury/Frailty. It's the second spot you are competing for (maybe even the 3rd) where you have either Geo bringing Haste+Vex (or Accuracy) or Brd bringing Marchx2 + Min (or Madrigal). It's super situational too, if you don't need Vex or Accuracy you have to use either really weak spells (Like Indi-STR) or survival spells like wilt. Entrust made it even more situational as you can add in another bubble on mobs that may need a specific buff like Vex or Torpor.
When I made daurabla 90 they released the 3 song instrument when I make ghorn they came out with skirmish flute now just when I am 75 percent done with daurabla 99 they gave geo entrust. At least this time I have the option of trading it in or trying to sell it and just gear geo.
Decisions decisions. =D
Well how does a 4 song Bard that cost 500 million or more to make stack up with a regular geo? That's my question.
I personally just play the game under the assumption that anything has the potential to be one-upped or lose it's value from having something similar come out.
If the thought of my expensive gear becoming obsolete really really irks me, I don't spend gil on it or make it.
If I have a lot of disposable income sitting around and it'll benefit me immediately in the near future and it seems fun, I go for it.
That being said, I really don't see brd going anywhere anytime soon. 4 songs are still quite nice especially in higher tier content.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2014-10-19 00:28:15
Quote: so we should ok as long as they dont bring back content like vw and dun dun dun abyssea. which did brd in with atmas and /brd to proc. Yeah Abyssea was bad for brds just like it was bad for a ton of jobs, but VW you still had to have a Brd for the main PT unless you wanted to take 10 minutes to kill and many alliances brought 2 or even 3 Brds because the job was always useful.
By maldini 2014-10-19 00:31:11
Grant bard 2 stances (like hasso/seigan) that does the following:
1. First stance - reduces amount of songs you can sing by 1, but extends all songs to alliance and increases duration of songs by 25%.
2. Second stance - enhances potency and decreases duration of all songs by 25%
regards, Maldini
Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2014-10-19 01:13:59
It is about time BRD gotten take off the top of the food chain for buffs, if you ask me. It was been way to long that BRD has been required for anything remotely hard. Even with GEO haste, scherzo still makers BRD necessary for the VD avatars and other VD merit fights.
SE has designed SoA around the concept of tiered growth. Essentially because they aren't raising the level cap, character growth has been transferred directly to the aquisition of new gear. So instead of leveling from 99 to 100 etc, we're transitioning from (Late)Abyssea-Voidwatch-Legion gear to Bayld gear, to Skirmish gear, then to Wildskeeper gear etc.
This is mindset is part of the reasoning why the current dev team wanted to leave REMs where they were, supplanting them with new weapons with every new tier level of content. Whether or not that was a wise decision on the Dev's part initially, now they're making a way to make REM tier the same way, bringing them stats to match level 120 gear. (Probably in about 3 or 4 jumps rather than the multiple jumps that the Magians gave us).
But here's my concern: Even if we leave the REM updates out of the equation (since really we have to) almost every other job can get better. If we do factor them in, it becomes even more apparent. Since g'horn and d'harp have been left out of this update, does SE think that bards are already fully capable of +20 level content as is?
Then I thought about it: what could SE really do to the horn/harp to much us better? Most melee jobs have a dozen or more different stats (and their derivatives) to juggle to maximize battle efficiency - Haste, STR, TP gain, -PDT, combat skill levels, etc etc etc. Magic dealing jobs have their own way of min-maxing with INT, and refresh gear, MAB gear, etc.
We bards are so awesome, that apparently we're at the top of our game, here and now. With the exception of Scherzo, we don't have to worry about skill levels. Our songs are already at cap, and there's nothing we can do that would make them /better/.
Song duration and song recast stuff is mainly for convenience and not all that needed. Our AF3+2 already gives additional stat buffs and is an improvement (although a remarkably small one in the scheme of things).
My linkshell was talking about it the other day, and we only came up with Magic Accuracy being the only real stat relevant to bards anymore. (Though Orvail pants and fast cast snuck into the conversation at the last moment.)
Has it always been like this with bards "sitting at the top", or am I imagining things? Are we actually already fully capable of our roles and duties in level 20 content already? FFXI has always been about getting new gear, and *now* there's no tangible reason for bards to strive for much. After you get your harp/horn, your AF3+2, your 3(maybe 4) pieces of Marduk+1, and those few pieces of Adoulin gear that are helpful but not at all needed, there's not much left. Okay, other than working on our mythic dagger.
At least in the context of gear, there's really not much that Adoulin offers us that would make us "better" is there? Except for those Macc earrings, I've met all my Adoulin gear goals for bard.
(While I can picture that white mages and possibly red mages and scholars have the same issue, it seems more pronounced for bards. RDM and SCH have delve gear worth getting and leveling up for MAB if I understand correctly.)
Okay, since g'horn has been left out of the (soon?)coming REM updates, how does SE expect us bards to become more relevant? Or do they already think of bards as already fully capable of level 20 content as is? If that's so, then doesn't bard have a huge potential to just become more of the boring same? Melee songs on melee, ballad on mages, debuffs on mobs.
Note: I wrote this up a few days ago, and now with the information that SE is working on Adoulin JSE gear, we may see that tangible boost to bards that I was worried couldn't happen. But it's still a valid issue I would think.
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