Automaton Research Thread

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Automaton Research Thread
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-16 17:50:09
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Automaton Research Thread!



A single place for Automaton research so we can stop clogging up the other threads!
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-16 17:50:44
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Alternator\Evasion

VS EM Bluffalo with Animator
Code
Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Mushroom                54    14.14 %       1   0.30 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %



VS EM Bluffalo with Alternator
Code
Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Mushroom               281    80.75 %       0   0.00 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %


So um a lot of unaccounted for evasion '~'
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-16 18:26:13
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Wat ^
 Sylph.Jkun
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By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-16 18:34:57
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I would like to say "makes sense", as myself and tons of others have stated that evasion (specifically with Sharpshot) has improved drastically throughout the Alternator thread, but 100+ is a bit insane.

I am also slightly worried that if we keep plugging it like this, SE are eventually going to send Alternator the way of the Magic Mortar.
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2013-05-16 18:42:30
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Sylph.Jkun said: »
I would like to say "makes sense", as myself and tons of others have stated that evasion (specifically with Sharpshot) has improved drastically throughout the Alternator thread, but 100+ is a bit insane.

I am also slightly worried that if we keep plugging it like this, SE are eventually going to send Alternator the way of the Magic Mortar.

I don't think it's broken in general, but I think the evasion boost is slightly insane. I wouldn't mind them reducing that just a tad. I chained 8 on a VT butterfly before with no effort whatsoever on my part, because they simply couldn't hit Sentinel.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-16 18:43:36
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I would have anticipated +75 Evasion (70 AGI, 40 Evasion) which should have been +37~38% evade rate.

Instead we got:
14% +/- 3.5% -> 80.75% +/- 4.2%

17% -> 77% (the limits, likely larger) would be -60% hit rate or +120 evasion. Even +70 Evasion and +70 AGI would be expected to give you only 105 Evasion.

I would not grow too attached to that evasion boost <____< You're getting at least 120 evasion, and likely more.
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By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-16 18:48:19
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I would not grow too attached to that evasion boost <____< You're getting at least 120 evasion, and likely more.

Part of my wants to agree, but if SE are going to take pet jobs seriously (especially with the kind of stuff they are throwing at us in Adoulin), then this should compensate for other jobs getting ludicrous weapons and equipment. Alternator costs the same as those weapons, and even drops from a T4~5 NM. It will probably be the best Animator for a long, long time.

Who knows, if the DRG, SMN and BST adjustments are just as good as Alternator, then maybe all these insane boosts are "as expected", it's still too early to tell. All we can do is keep testing our butts off and hope that it's kept under SE's radar just a little bit longer!
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By Quetzalcoatl.Lucieus 2013-05-16 18:56:49
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Sylph.Jkun said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I would not grow too attached to that evasion boost <____< You're getting at least 120 evasion, and likely more.

Part of my wants to agree, but if SE are going to take pet jobs seriously (especially with the kind of stuff they are throwing at us in Adoulin), then this should compensate for other jobs getting ludicrous weapons and equipment. Alternator costs the same as those weapons, and even drops from a T4~5 NM. It will probably be the best Animator for a long, long time.

Who knows, if the DRG, SMN and BST adjustments are just as good as Alternator, then maybe all these insane boosts are "as expected", it's still too early to tell. All we can do is keep testing our butts off and hope that it's kept under SE's radar just a little bit longer!

I agree.

and honestly with the way the game has been rapidly growing these days, I expect that in a few months the Alternator will actually be not good enough for future content.

I imagine the upcoming SMN Grips and BST Jugs will render their pets equally as powerful.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-16 19:57:45
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Alternator\Accuracy

I am having difficulty getting good data because I have to use smoke screen to get shitty accuracy on anything that can't just kill the Auto with regular Animator on! So I gave up for now after determining that Smoke Screen is too insane to actually work with

Auto had a ~40% HR with Smoke Screen on T Mandragoras and ~92% with Smoke Screen and Alternator but had ~65% without Smoke Screen (Earth Wind Light maneuvers) but my sample sizes were not extremely large

I may go see what I can muster up on Ladybugs in Ceizak but it appears the bonus to acc is also pretty huge

(As an aside evasion jumped from 8% to 80+% lol)
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-16 20:45:15
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Alternator\Accuracy

I don't really need much more data than this to confirm that I cannot fathom the magnitude of the Alternator

Versus T Resplendent Luckybug

Animator
Code
Melee Damage
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg
Mushroom               2844          0      2844   59.76 %     25/139   15.24 %   15.24 %    94/143   108.21   108.21


goes to this

Alternator
Code
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg
Mushroom              27344          0     27344   58.59 %     140/11   92.72 %   92.72 %   137/239   187.14   187.14


Excuse me?

The sample sizes are small but even at the rims of the margins of error it's ridiculous

Oh and evade went from floored to ~capped
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-16 20:58:57
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Accuracy, Jesus Christ
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By Losie 2013-05-16 21:01:38
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Not entirely on topic, but.. I hope these changes are just the beginning. Auto's an' wyverns and such have been pretty shunned for a while now, I hope this kicks PUPs right up into the badassness that other jobs have been enjoying with the new insanity of Delve gear.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-16 21:03:02
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Oh, and in case anyone cares, PUP is virtually unbeatable for farming oldSalvage pieces(/decent alexandrite returns). Clearing entire zone is a joke, and Sharpshot can solo all chariots incredibly quickly
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By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-16 21:11:43
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Oh, and in case anyone cares, PUP is virtually unbeatable for farming oldSalvage pieces(/decent alexandrite returns). Clearing entire zone is a joke, and Sharpshot can solo all chariots incredibly quickly

Unbeatable for a lot of old content*

I'm farming my Arch-Omega set and Automatons can solo entire Limbus areas, too. Including Apollyon NW kings. On Sharpshot, no less.

But then again, this and Salvage were possible without Alternator, it just took a lot more tears and blood. Or, wait, oil and metal?
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 Valefor.Lisamarie
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By Valefor.Lisamarie 2013-05-16 21:14:26
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I wonder how it does for old content things that are done with a Pt, such as Einherjar farming?

I parsed first on my Ninja (by a fair margin; 20k dmg), Kiji/Aphotic Kukri setup in an Einherjar, against ragnadrk, apocdrk, ukon war. double marches + haste.

I seriously doubt PUP would compete.

So I'm assuming any low/no buff situations (solo, perhaps) PUP is now king.


Edit: inb4 nerf; like the burraitinos nerf. 10>1.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-16 21:17:11
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So you parsed first using Delve-level weapons versus old level 99 weapons

Do you want a cookie or something

Seriously though this thread is not really the place for that
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-16 21:36:48
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Armor Shatterer

I think this may have already been assumed but it shares the same 50% DEX mod as regular Automaton ranged attacks

Other stats do not affect it except for STR until fSTR2 caps at dSTR=98
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By Fenrir.Soulstealers 2013-05-16 22:26:40
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Sylow have you done any BLM frame testing yet?
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By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-16 23:08:01
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Fenrir.Soulstealers said: »
Sylow have you done any BLM frame testing yet?

Myself and Byrth did. With Alternator, nukes give a standard MAB +40.

Then it kind of snowballed into more junk here with extensive Overload research (Alternator and non Alternator related) Check it out!
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-16 23:21:57
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The level of power that they've added to this job with a single piece of equipment astounds me
 Fenrir.Soulstealers
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By Fenrir.Soulstealers 2013-05-16 23:47:19
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Sylph.Jkun said: »
Fenrir.Soulstealers said: »
Sylow have you done any BLM frame testing yet?

Myself and Byrth did. With Alternator, nukes give a standard MAB +40.

Then it kind of snowballed into more junk here with extensive Overload research (Alternator and non Alternator related) Check it out!
Thanks.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-17 00:18:15
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Alternator\Accuracy + Ranged Accuracy

Parsed a couple of delve farms with RNG Automaton - Auto has capped ACC and RACC on everything
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By Siren.Barber 2013-05-17 00:20:53
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If someone could put together a quick chart of what element maneuver cause what weapon skill to be used that would help. And which attachments should be used for each frame along with which element maneuver should be prioritized for each frame. Basic stuff but its not centralized on any of the wikis.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-17 00:24:06
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The table I can take care of later pretty easily but as far as attachments + maneuvers that's going to vary somewhat depending on what you need the Automaton to do and - probably - whether or not you have Kenkonken
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By Fenrir.Motenten 2013-05-17 00:27:00
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Table already exists on wiki: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Automaton_Weapon_Skills

Edit: And to get to it -- search "puppetmaster", go to "See Also" section, find "Automaton Weapon Skills" link.
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By Enuyasha 2013-05-17 00:35:17
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Fenrir.Motenten said: »
Table already exists on wiki: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Automaton_Weapon_Skills

Edit: And to get to it -- search "puppetmaster", go to "See Also" section, find "Automaton Weapon Skills" link.
as far as that goes, is it dependent on the first maneuver up,or how many maneuvers you have of that element active? Even though i have wind maneuvers up it always uses arcu instead of shatter >_>;
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-17 00:40:36
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You must have two fire maneuvers up then or are using Inhibitor
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By Enuyasha 2013-05-17 00:41:50
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
You must have two fire maneuvers up then or are using Inhibitor
ill be more careful about that then next time :<
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-17 00:48:05
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If two maneuvers conflict then it'll use whichever you have more of or if there is a tie it'll use the one there are more of!

For RNG Automaton I recommend just using Wind Maneuvers if you have Alternator as Armor Shatterer has a ratio bonus and seems to cap attack on everything
Code
  Weaponskills
    Armor Shatterer
      2820   2820   2820   2820   2820   2820   2865   2820   2189   2865
      2865   2685   2865   2685   2820


2820 -- Eft and Bugard
2685 -- Wivres
2865 - Lizards
2189 - Lizard (following Demoralizing Roar)
Code
    Armor Shatterer
      2820   2865   2820   2565   2865   2685   [i]2073[/i]   2865   2685   2685
      [i]2020[/i]   2865   2685   2820   2820


2073 - to Wivre (following Demoralizing Roar)
2020 - to Wivre (following Demoralizing Roar)


So Armor Shatterer caps attack on everything except for when the Auto is inflicted with Demoralizing Roar


Automaton ranged attacks vary over a range so the Automaton is not capping Ranged Attack by itself
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-17 01:18:30
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2820 -- implies 235 base damage

427//3 = 142
floor ( 17/20 * floor ( 1/2 * (96+70) ) ) = 70

235 - 142 - 70 = 23 base damage unaccounted for implying automaton has ~46-47 more STR than Eft VIT

So the eft has ~116 VIT
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