Amano + Yoichi Stacking..

So I have read in multiple places on here about the usefulness and potency of the combination of Amano + Yoichi in endgame content but Im not seeing the real benefit. Maybe Im doing something wrong. WHat do you other dual relic Sams do? The main question I have is what exactly do you (the community) mean by the two AM's overwrite each other and whats the purpose? Should I be rotating Kaiten>Shoha>Namas? HALP.

I suggest you read this BG thread from where I linked it and onwards, it'll give you a very good idea of how and why Amano/Yoichi is so good, at least in Legion: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108713-Legion-info-and-strategies?p=5596281&viewfull=1#post5596281

Long story short:
Ratk caps way higher than normal attack, so with lots of attack buffs(or on very weak mobs), namas does very nice dmg.
Also you can take advantage of piercing-weaknes on certain mobs.

Thanks for that Tamoa, makes sense. Question though, according to that post it doesnt seem like theyre using GK for anything besides tp. If youre just spamming Namas, wouldnt a multi hit GK or Quint spear win in terms of gaining tp fastest?

Our Yoichi/Amano SAM usually puts out slightly better numbers using OA4 trial GK. It does completely cripple TP phase damage, so it's not blowing amano away. It's probably more of the fact that OA4 is incredibly irritating to get and for a player who farms ADL or has another consistant gil source, amano is significantly less work than 99 OA4.

Amano in endgame offers 40 accuracy which is really huge.
Also the relic proc dmg adds up very nicely for white damage.
If it really is BETTER than quint etc on weak stuff idk.

I always had the same question Ryumax exposed in his last post.
I concur doing OA2-4 is terribly annoying, but then again Quint Spear and arguably Soboro-sukehiro would be better choices than Amano, if all you're using it for is TPing.

Now things would be different if we were talking about a battle context where the SAM is supposed to continuosly swap between Namas and Shoha according to the current target.
But I got the impression in Legion they just spam Namas, and if things are that way then once more, why Amano and not another weapon which would grant you TP much faster, no matter which you decide to use?


Edit@Kyazz
We're talking about a context where the SAM is uberly buffed. In such a context, with natural 2H accuracy, Hasso, other JAs like Aggressor and all that huge amount of buffs, would the +acc on Amano really make a difference? I'm leaning to think it doesn't really matter.

And since noone mentioned it yet, ZanHasso attacks and Double attack all overwrite OAX procs which is another nail in the OAX coffin.

I am entirely spitballing here and terrible at number crunching, but how would a non-ZanHasso-dependant setup with other gear choices w/ OAT compare to Amano build with it?

Would allow use of some of the crit/haste/etc. bodies and other gear out there.

Absolutely no idea how it pans out. It could get murdered horribly. But throwing it out there.

You would have to not use Hasso, and lose 12.5% ja haste, to avoid the 15%+ chance ZanHasso procs which give double tp return. On top of killing your white damage by using an OAX weapon.

Amano over quint for anything high end because A+ skill vs B-, and the 40acc on amano. If you're pew-pew-ing birds in misareaux, quint would do just fine. I don't know why you'd build a relic for that, but to each his own... Another advantage to amano is the a ability to instantly change to a powerful melee ws, stardiver with quint is a joke.

Are you serious? Who the hell would drop hasso to avoid an almost negliglible loss in average auto rounds?

Why would anyone want to use a weapon with terrible base damage for an average of 1.85-1.9 hits per attack round?

something about sam's ws ratio and the fact OA4 does about 55% of amanos white damage

Until someone spreadsheets it you can't be positive, but I wouldn't be shocked if it won.. like I said, the SAM in my shell usually parses higher while using it over his 99 amano.

I don't normally pay attention to SAM, or I'd spreadsheet it myself. Not sure what ideal sets are and might end up with an inaccurate conclusion because of that. It's also possible his sets are less than ideal.

The other consideration is Namas damage drops off considerably if any buffs are down. Big plus for Amano since you can swap to Kaiten/Shoha instantly.

SAM gains TP incredibly fast, WS delay becomes a bigger factor then white damage.

So, basically Namas Arrow is still only coming into play in super buffed situations, mainly in legion, where we can take advantage of the super high ceiling on RATTK. We all know it can be useful in lawman situation where you don't want everyone TPing the mob, and "oh ***" situations when every one goes down/there's kiting etc. The damage at a distance with little enmity is nice. Where else can we factor in Yoichi to really take advantage of it? Anyone care to post their Yoichi TP(lol) and Namas sets?

And Good point Taint ^^.

Why compare with quint? I would think soborro would be the better comparison. With soboro you could be spamming namas like ever 5 seconds.

While I haven't seen it first hand, I can imagine that Yoichi SAM in Odin v2 is great. Based on things Taint has said in other threads/seeing Anni RNGs on Odin v2 you are getting the best of both worlds.

If I had Yoichi I'd be using it a distance for the first 50% of Odin which saves me from annoying AoE damage and it is enmity-less. At 50% my LS typically embravas/PDs and we zerg him down from there so I'd bust out the Amano at that point and go to town.

There are some Namas TP/WS sets in the Bushido - SAM guide courtesy of Taint.

If you're interested I can provide some VW parse with 4song brd/angon/cor, I do believe Yoichi is def a top tier if not the best wpn in the game there, now they just need to fix Ageha so we can remove drg!

We tank Odin2 with 2 SAMs but we both use amano and shoha. Buffs are very inconsistent on him. I swear he is programmed to use his dispel JA everytime I hit berserk.

Are you one of the tanking SAMs or you stay at a distance with Yoichi?

I tank him. If you are going to stay at a distance you should be on RNG...

So using namas at close range doesn't put it at a disadvantage? I thought Ranged WS had a narrow sweet spot for damage calculations.
I know you're not using namas while tanking odin, just a general question

The Key to Namas spam is to TP at Max range. There is a huge penalty right up on the mob but it decreases considerably if you stay at max range.

Interesting...

I thought the whole idea was to stay out of nasty AOE range.

Max range on HNM's is quite a bit more than on a mandie... makes sense.

Well, Namas does good in super high buff situations, and since ranged WS aren't affected by overwhelm, you have no reason to stand in front of the mob. From what I gather those are the main reasons to use it in that situation.

ExActly constantly moving behind the mob to a safe spot. It's very effect on Ironclad mobs like in Mul.