PUP In Dynamis

A little known fact is that PUP is just as effective as BST in dynamis. With /THF sub and tarutaru sash, PUP has TH3. Your JA procs you say? No problem. PUP can spam WS procs faster than a /DNC can spam JA procs. How, you ask? Flashbulb, Strobe, and Disruptor all count as weaponskills. Strobe and Flashbulb each have a 30 second recast time and are used independantly, and Disruptor will automatically be used if the mob has any sort of buff (protect, shell) or uses a buff weaponskill (berserk, etc.). This, along with your TP and your automaton's TP, makes proccing WS as easy as JA. Another plus? No competition. Everyone and their mom will be hogging the JA proc camps while you're all alone doing WS.

Pros of PUP in dynamis:
*Great survivability with no downside
*TH3 with THF sub and sash
*Risk-free easy statue kills with puppet
*Less competiton
*Survivability not dependant on subjob. Soulsoother puppet will keep you healed with no downtime and infinite MP, as well as Protect and Shell
*Fast kills. PUP has access to some of the strongest weaponskills (lolpup all you like, a properly geared PUP's stringing pummel/shijin spiral/victory smite is nothing to scoff at, especially on weak trashy dynamis mobs) as well being able to use your pet's TP for stronger weaponskills compared to BST who whose pets have weak weaponskills. Puppet will spam Dia 2.
*Easy weaponskill procs. Strobe, Flashbulb, Disruptor and two TP pools make this faster than JA procs.
*Does not need to use TP to heal or do damageless procs (steps, flourish)
*Want to try for white procs? No problem! Your pet has no subjob. You can still easily do statues. Survability isn't compromised. Unlike BST, you don't lose your best procs or your ability to heal.
*Unlike any melee job, you still have the ability to proc magic if you so choose (even though it's a low chance, it's at least possible)
*High evasion skill, plus evasion bonus IV without a sub (one tier lower than THF main)
*Status effects? Not a problem. Your puppet has 500 means to instantly remove them, even the nasty ones like petrify. You won't be paralyzed from Healing Waltz or waste TP.
*Auto-haste. Your puppet will relentlessly haste you once it wears.
*No money spent on jug pets. This means a higher return on the money you get from currency for your time spent. No ammunition or tools, except the occasional automaton oil if needed.

Cons:
*Unless you sub DNC and lose TH3 (TH1 only with sash), you will have absolutely no JA procs except steal/mug. This isn't a problem because JA procs will not be your focus.

*No native sneak or invisible (except Hide with /THF)
*Obviously leveling the job and getting it up to speed isn't as easy as perle BST, because your puppet needs attachments to be effective

No.

yah sorry, PUP Is a really amazing job, i love Stringing Pummel, But JA Procs are really the bread and butter of Dynamis, losing that, you may as well not even go.

Ws/Magic procs are a pain in the arse.

Try reading it? Have you read it? Don't dismiss the idea. Sure, it may not ever happen because it's PUP and the entire server would sooner level BST than PUP, but you can't argue its effectiveness for those who actually do it. I'm witness to it as 99 PUP :P I can get the "magic number" of 150+ currency, so that's proof that it works.

Asura.Karbuncle, try re-reading it. Do you know that automaton job abilities count as weaponskills? They can use these at the same rate as steps, and they deal no damage and are instant. WS and JA have the same percent chance. As a bonus, you will have no competition. Why is JA the bread and butter when you can do exactly the same thing as JA but on WS mobs with PUP's unique tools?

IDK, I can Duo THF/DNC and WHM/??? at 300 Currency a run or higher, I could probably solo 200+ on just THF Alone.

PUP is an Amazing job, But 150 is rather low-ball for a lot of jobs these days, Even in Dynamis Bastok i can get 200+ Duo on THF.

BST/DNC will still be the better option, even with TH1.

Again, my PUP Is 99, I love the job, Stringing Pummel is boss as FK, But Its just not going to be a new bandwagon, if anything, Well see a swarm of PINK DNCs and Pink THFs >_>;;

Which makes me sick to think about...

Besides, PUP really is one of those jobs that requires thinking and Gear to play right, Something 90% of bandwagoners don't possess.

You're going to get the same response from everyone, Theres just better jobs. PUP Requires thought, The only reason something becomes bandwaggon is because its "Easy". PUP Is not, PUP Is hard to learn, hard to master, and difficult to gear. Nothing Easy or band-wagon accessible about it is all.

Its great if you enjoy it in Dynamis, No ones telling you not too. It just wont become the next band-wagon, Because its too difficult a job to perform right. BST was idiot proof.

Yes, i read the darn OP.

I said 150 because I often hear that as the "average" rate a BST can pull. It's the number I've seen thrown around all the time. I've often gotten more, but it's just a figure. You really don't understand anything I just wrote if you think it's impossible to do dynamis as efficiently on PUP as BST or any other job.

You're not reading or comprehending what I'm saying if that's what you're getting from my post. actual read what I'm saying, Something you've been advocating in your responses.

PUP can perform well, But you're insisting it will become the new Band-wagon. It won't. People bandwagon because its EASY to do the job they band-wagon too.

PUP Is a hard job. Hard to play, Hard to skill up (Automatons needs skill ups, That sucks *** to do)... Hard to learn. Automaton attachments are expensive as F**k.

The job may perform well but it won't become a bandwagon. Not because its not effective, simply because its hard to make it effective. Band-wagonners are looking for an easy fix. PUP Requires time investments, Skill ups, Etc.

Plus, A lot of the crucial attachments cost a lot (Optic Fiber, The Haste one, Etc). Again, Not denying what you say is true, PUP has potential, They can get some currency flow, Its just You're probably a good PUP, Bandwagonners look for the easiest route.

THF or DNC will probably replace BST (If BST is replaced at all, I Don't think it will be).

THATS ALL IM SAYIN'!

What issue do you see with PUP? I explained that proccing is NOT a problem. Their kill speed and survivabiltity is NOT a problem. Their treasure hunter is NOT going to be a problem (Yes, they won't have as high as THF, but neither has BST, and now they'll have even lower). Like I said obviously it's not going to become bandwagon because people are lazy and stupid, but it doesn't mean it doesn't work. Period. There is no "best" option. And if you have competition, which on some servers/times can be a HUGE problem, say goodbye to your currency. Doing WS procs, which once again I explained can be done as quickly and effieciently as JA procs given PUP's native tools, will give you a camp all to yourself and even out or surpass the currency gained from whatever magic you think BST has.

Yeah you didn't read my post at all. I said it would never happen but it's a fun thought. It was contemplation, but like I said, it's not going to be like perle BST. Obviously I know the differences between easymode BST and the skill/thought put into PUP. But if anyone wanted to and invested the time, they could still do it. Just like good BSTs who actually like the job and invest time into it other than dynamis. You're taking the title too seriously. It was merely a post explaining the little known facts about the OTHER pet job, PUP, who CAN be as efficient as BST in dynamis assuming they don't suck.

well i think it's a cool idea, thank you for the insight

I'll say it again, PUP Is a great job, has its potential, But to become a "Bandwagon", You need to meet some criteria, Unfortunately, PUP is:

1) Too hard to Get into - You have to skill up your automaton, that takes time. Band-wagoners don't want to level a job, then level their automaton to do Dynamis, They want to Level > Go

2) Difficult to learn - Despite what most PUPs think, Maneuvers are a pain to learn and keep up all the time. Requires constant effort - Bandwagoners want an Easy button, Not constant effort

3) Difficult to gear - PUP is a gear heavy job, Stringing Pummel Sucks in Pink, The jobs Damage output will suffer if you don't gear right. with BST, the pets always made up for the damage a bit, PUP requires equal effort on MAster and Automaton - Band-wagoners want full Perle/AH Gear and Easy pickings

4) Expensive - Automatons require attachments to function, Attachments are expensive in the short term (Not the long term, like bST food) - Most Band-wagoners aren't going to want to spend in close to 10mil gil on all the attachment they'd need to be as effective as you.

5) Doesn't offer a lot of JA Procs - Bandwagoners see JA procs as bread-and-butter, Your insist on a WS heavy set up. It would be hard to convince anyone this is better or somehow beneficial.

I don't know why you're trying so hard to push PUP as the next big Dynamis thing, It just doesn't fit the criteria for "Bandwagon".

Edit:


I've never took that into consideration because the other 3-4 Posts you have in this thread all seem to dictate you feel this is the next bandwagon and keep asking us to explain to you why its not viable.

If it was truly just a "Fun thought", you wouldn't be telling us "lol read the op guyz" and telling us we just don't your vision of it.

I understand its a fun thought, I've been PUP in Dynamis, I'm just trying to explain its not the next bandwagon, Which is your Thread title... and what you've been arguing since post 1 :\

Speaking as someone who has neither PUP nor BST (therefore no bias) I can say that I like this idea, and not only that, with the "nerf" to jug pets coming (dipper and other pets that have TH will only get TH1) This means that with a tarutaru sash and /DNC, PUP will have as much TH as a BST and still have a lot of JA procs if they want them.

Karb is right in saying it's not going to become a bandwagon job. PUP is great but people aren't going to level it simply to do dynamis, especially with the amount of gil and time they'd have to put into doing it right.

(Although I don't know why Karb bringing THF DNC and Duos into this since this post was all about SOLO PUP being and alternative to SOLO BST in dyna but hey, whatever.)

That being said it's certainly viable, and I see it as an alternative to -SOLO BST- in dynamis. That being said, BST with pet kills much faster than a PUP will (Yes PUP can do good damage, but BST typically does more... PUP = Master damage + Pet haste BST = Master damage + Pet damage).

I feel the major draw in to PUP is it's ability to get white procs solo. That's a pretty major draw in, considering you'd still have TH1 while doing it. It can easily make a 150 currency run suddenly be 250 instead.

Footnote EDIT: In a dynamis that's not dreamland (Farming for THF hands in xarc or whatever) PUP would also come in handy as a way to proc WS mobs without killing them too quickly in bigger groups, which can be a benefit (frankly my LS uses a kraken club which is faster yet but ill never expect every person to get one of those xD)

relevant how. His thread is titled "PUP: The new bandwagon dynamis job to replace BST?"

His topic is about the idea of PUP being the next bandwagon. His responses are about PUP being the next bandwagon.

Thats all i was addressing :|, Really. I like his idea, it was well thought out, It made a lot of sense, He presented his point magnificently. Its just, It didn't meet the criteria of "Bandwagon" (Easy to level, get into, and play). Thats all.

I figured all of that would be a given, once again this was just food for thought and not a realistic thing for EVERYONE to suddenly start doing. I don't expect ANYONE to suddenly level PUP for dynamis. However, the people who already have PUP leveled and are good at it can benefit from this. It's obvious bandwagoners aren't going to jump to PUP. The title was mostly a joke. But this post wasn't about that. It was explaining how PUP works in dynamis as well as BST, putting the difficulties of leveling PUP etc. aside, it just assumes you're already a PUP or aspiring to be one.

And i agree!

PUP Is an amazing job... It has its potential =.=a I guess our definition of Bandwagon is different is all. A simple misunderstanding Mr. Zelduh.


In my Defense. The "duo" partner was a WHM who simply hasted me for the most part >_> and a Regen IV. Automatons can perform the same buffs, in a way, PUP and BST both Duo, Just with a pet, not a human :P

Nah, Pup wont get bandwagoned for namis. I know what PUP can do, but still with /thf it wont be as effecent. I still say we either see THF or DNC get bandwagoned or still see BSTs.. After the TH decrease i will test both, but then i dont have thf leveled and dont really have an urge to do it.

I dont have an urge to get a thf sash or level thf so i will go with what i'm good at. I cant see PUP getting bandwagoned for namis. Its too much work for alot of people.

The title should be changed honestly, should be about using pup in dynamis and not it being the next bandwagon job which everyone who has pup or not knows it won't be.

You can't claim BST will do more damage. I'm not going to argue which is better, but for all intents and purposes let's assume it's about even because you don't know the circumstances. I've stood alongside many BSTs and killed multiple mobs while they're still on one. And no, it's not master damage + pet, the WHM frame can still melee and do good consistent damage and build TP for you to steal. I assure you, with the master's higher damage output and weaponskills, paired with a slightly weaker pet, it will either even out or surpass BST's kill speed. Even the mage frame will be able to do decent damage on dynamis mobs due to how pet level correction works and the attachments available to it.

Changed the title and moved to PUP section. Move along.

"I know what PUP can do, but still with /thf it wont be as effecent."

It is if you target weaponskill proc mobs. Trust me. It seems like a crazy idea, yeah, but Strobe/Flashbulb/Disruptor work just as efficiently as steps/flourish if you're doing it right. JA proc isn't the end-all be-all. WS has the same exact percent chance. The only reason people don't do WS is obviously because building TP takes time and you risk killing it before it procs. This is NOT an issue with PUP.

Most BST's are gimp, Especally Dynamis BST's, I can stand next to a full Perle WAR on my THF and out-kill him 6 to 1, Doesn't mean THF > WAR in DD Department.

I don't deny PUP's potential, But saying stuff like that is not a proper method to get your point across Mr. Zelduh!

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*Edit*

Thank you sir.
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I like what you have to say in the OP, It makes a good point, you explain it very well, and you obviously took some amount of time to think about your post.

You obviously feel strongly about PUP, That said, You have to realize, a Great geared player will always out-DD a Mediocre Band-wagoner. Plus, In dynamis, killing ~2-3 mobs in the time it takes someone to kill one could be skewed, they could just be having a really hard time procing :P.

Anyway, Thank you for taking the time to discuss this.

And i've seen plenty of PUPs fall short and be out Damaged by BSTs. Fact of the matter is that a lot of the players in the game are too lazy to gear properly and use the right macros, etc, so yes being really good at a job will typically allow you to do more damage than other players. that does not mean that your job > their job. It just means your gear > their gear.

I wouldn't keep my Soulsoother near the mob for some added damage, unless you like throwing oils at it, which I don't. And auto-repair kit certainly isn't that great.

Which is why I said you shouldn't make any blanket statements about who will kill faster or not. It's extremely situational. Show me two highly geared BST and PUP and parse them both and then you can make claims :P But for all intents and purposes for my discussion, considering I plow through mobs while perle BSTs (or whatever they are, I don't check) are still killing one, let's assume they sucked and I'm godly, and call it Even, as in both are about the same, because if you see a PUP kill slower than your BST, obviously you can argue that they sucked too. It's EXTREMELY circumstantial. The fact that I can get the same currency as a solo BST speaks volume enough.

In my opinion a master pup will out damage a master bst, but in the middle and below bst will overcome pup.

I'm neither so w/e~

Unless the mob does AoE it shouldn't really be getting hit. Even if it does, it usually cures itself to full with light maneuvers. Can also use mana tanks/economizer to restore MP if it does get hit, until it decides to heal itself

IDK, Ruinator can be really powerful too. Stringing Pummel is boss...

I think it'd be really close. But You may be right.

Diremites, rarabs, scorpions and krakens come to mind. Problem is if it gets hit when it's time to do D-A. ***happens.
Anyway.

Edit: but sure as hell I wouldn't fight mandies on pup. Bloody things.