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[Dev] Corsair Adjustments
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-03 16:20:05
This is more of a blanket nerf, only posted it here because COR gets Miser's Roll. This is affecting every source of Save TP. Kinda renders the SAM Relic+2 body completely useless as if it wasn't bad enough already.
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Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-03 19:39:28
Update on topic today:
02-03-2012 04:52 PM | Bayohne | Community Rep | |
| Since we didn’t provide enough background information along with our last post, I wanted to inform you all why we decided to change Gallant’s Roll’s effect to defense boost.
We plan on setting the value of the defense boost at around 30% when the highest number is rolled. This boost will be applied to the final defensive value after the effects of gear, abilities and spells are factored in and will reduce physical damage taken. This effect will vary based on the opponent’s strength and the player’s defense stats, but we expect this defense boost to be more significant than the originally planned Phalanx effect. (In addition, players can still reduce damage even further through gear and Phalanx.)
The effects of defense vary based on the opponent’s attack strength, so defense boost is more effective when fighting against stronger opponents compared with Phalanx, which has a fixed damage reduction. Defense boost also has a cumulative effect, which makes it more beneficial to paladins than physical damage reduction which becomes useless once the maximum limit is reached.
Therefore, we decided that making the roll a defense boost would be a more beneficial effect overall. | |
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Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-02-04 05:29:06
Yeah sure, defense is so hot.
Leviathan.Hohenheim
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-04 05:49:15
Yeah sure, defense is so hot.
cannonball!?
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-02-04 06:42:10
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »Yeah sure, defense is so hot.
cannonball!?
Cannonball I miss it ;;
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Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-08 18:03:50
Update on topic today:
02-08-2012 05:55 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.
As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.
In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.
Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.
Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.
For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.
Setup
Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)
Results
Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage
Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference. | |
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2012-02-08 18:07:45
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Server: Siren
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Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-08 18:17:34
Bayohne: Hey guys,
Just as a reference, I wanted to point out that while you may know a lot about how defense functions, it doesn't mean that every one reading the forums does. So while something we post may not directly influence you or your understanding of something, we post to reach as many people as possible. Nothing we post is ever meant to "insult your intelligence" when we try and provide context for things.
blah blah blah...
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Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2012-02-08 18:23:43
oh god he actually posted that too...
*facepalm*
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-08 19:00:58
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-02-08 19:06:47
If they're gonna nerf Miser's Roll/Save TP, they really should effing leave Gallant's as badass damage mitigation.
Leave us at least one exclusive awesome buff, dammit.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-02-08 19:30:56
If they're gonna nerf Miser's Roll/Save TP, they really should effing leave Gallant's as badass damage mitigation.
Leave us at least one exclusive awesome buff, dammit.
What? Cor has DA and Crit rate. Those are good :P
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-08 19:38:06
Is Camate *** high? Does he realize that we know what defense does and that that's why we're saying it's useless? jesus christ.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-08 19:39:33
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Is Camate *** high? Does he realize that we know what defense does and that that's why we're saying it's useless? jesus christ.
Remember, it's translated from a JP post directed at JP posts. The "Tester" Mocchi is on the JP team.
Lakshmi.Greggles
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 728
By Lakshmi.Greggles 2012-02-08 19:44:48
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Is Camate *** high? Does he realize that we know what defense does and that that's why we're saying it's useless? jesus christ.
Why are you even mat at Camate? It's not like he made that post for the hell of it... =x
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-08 19:47:20
Not mad at Camate though am rather disgruntled that he continues to find it necessary to post the obvious as if we're all oblivious.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-08 19:49:50
They have to post whatever the localization team gives them to post, lol.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-08 19:52:15
Fair enough, someone responsible for this is an *** however. Defense decreases physical damage taken? You don't say. Wonder what sort of sample size they used to create those numbers at the bottom, since any of those three could potentially fall in the same range. In fact, they're almost guaranteed to.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-08 19:55:58
This is the same person who did the "Is TH10 worse than TH9?" test.
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Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-08 20:04:31
Fantastic
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-08 20:10:55
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-08 20:11:29
※This is a screenshot from actual testing.
lol
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-08 20:13:42
They didn't even give actual values, so who knows if the difference was even statistically significant or not.
Lakshmi.Jesi
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 576
By Lakshmi.Jesi 2012-02-08 20:19:54
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Fair enough, someone responsible for this is an *** however. Defense decreases physical damage taken? You don't say. Wonder what sort of sample size they used to create those numbers at the bottom, since any of those three could potentially fall in the same range. In fact, they're almost guaranteed to.
Well to be fair, they thought that people were wanting them to remove defense as a stat period. Which of course they could do and just normalize damage based on level, it would take a lot of work redoing powers like defender and just not worth it.
Also since they are openly communicating with people now, why don't they just give us the formulas for stuff instead of making up some numbers that don't really mean anything.
I mean there really aren't many mysteries left and people have pretty much figured them all out, so it wouldn't really be a big deal.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-08 20:21:19
They could just, you know, make defense better instead of adding sources to make it higher, granting little effect and making those sources useless.
But they don't really think like that. Too much work and time investment, and it would destroy balance. Obv.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-08 20:24:06
The dev team:
Lakshmi.Jesi
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 576
By Lakshmi.Jesi 2012-02-08 20:24:36
They didn't even give actual values, so who knows if the difference was even statistically significant or not.
Well they said that they did 500 of each and got "more". While you are correct we would have to run statistical tests to see if that is significant or not.
But let's assume they did and it is.
That was pretty stupid and a waste of everyone's time. Like I said previously, the much easier solution would have been to give the formula for TH9 and TH10 and say "Hey look it increases drops by X amount."
But maybe even the dev team is kept in the dark about how the game works! Maybe this is how they actually test stuff to make sure it's working. The code for TH was made a long time ago by a mystical wizard and he keeps it hidden with a special spell.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-08 20:25:41
Wouldn't be surprised if players have a more intricate understanding of game mechanics than most of the devs tbh.
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-08 20:26:48
The real mastermind behind the game's code;
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01-03-2012 02:28 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
It’s been quite some time since we announced that we would be revamping corsair’s Phantom Roll effects, but I have some additional information about the planned changes.
※Currently these features are in-development and testing and are subject to change.
As long as there are no major development/testing problems, we are planning to introduce these changes on the test server middle or late January.
As usual, please let us know your feedback! | |
01-05-2012 02:06 PM | Rukkirii | Community Rep | |
| Odin.Mirabelle said: One question about the new Gallant's roll. Are the values a flat amount of -DT (like phalanx) or a percentage (like -DT gear)? The damage reduction from Gallant's Roll is not a percentage, the reduction value is the number itself. (Maximum 30 damage)
In case you didn't know, you can stack this with Phalanx making it possible to increase the amount of damage reduced.
In regards to those of you asking about a third roll, we haven't solidified a specific adjustment timing so I don't have any new information for you guys at the moment. But when I do, you bet I'll be giving you guys an update! | |
01-11-2012 05:54 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings all
I have some additional info on corsair adjustments based on some questions from the Japanese forum to share with you all.
Quote: Though Drachen Roll gives magic attack bonus to pets, this does not affect wyvern’s attack breath, and in the case of battles that are dependent on a pet’s magic attack, a dragoon will not be in the party for the bonus. In order to allow for better use of the job bonuses, we are currently looking into swapping the stats on Drachen Roll and Puppet Roll. We are making preparations so that this can be implemented onto the test server along with the other roll adjustments.
[Pre-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
[Post-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Quote: Would it be possible to edit the effect of Blitzer’s Roll?
Currently, if you cast Blitzer’s Roll, the amount of TP gained is reduced and if attackers use store TP it’s not really possible to get the full benefit. Could you edit this so that the effect does not affect TP gain and reduces attack delay like Haste and March? The effect of Blitzer’s Roll is the same as Martial Arts as it reduces the attack duration, so the amount of TP gained is affected. We do not plan on changing the effect to make it similar to Haste/March as these spells have an influence on magic.
Quote: Can you make it possible to cast rolls on a single party member? It could have a 15 second recast and no Double-up possibility. If we had this, it would make it possible to use all of the hard to use pet rolls, etc. It would also be possible to put the new Gallant’s Roll on the tank only. In regards to single target rolls, I will address this and the concept of corsair as a set.
Corsairs have the ability to support party members with their rolls similar to bards; however, while bards spend most of their time during battle supporting party members with songs, corsairs don’t spend the same amount of time on support and were made to have a surplus of time so they can attack. This is why the effect duration and recast time on rolls have been set to be longer than songs.
While it is definitely possible to look into single target effects in order to effectively use rolls, the functionality of corsair would most likely be largely changed due to the increased frequency of roll usage, so we would like to continue to look into this while carefully considering whether it is really appropriate for the corsair style that we envisioned.
Quote: The enhanced cure potency for cures received is good with waltzes too, right? Unfortunately the effect from Healer’s Roll will not enhance the potency of waltzes.
While they are similar effects, the stats are separate and this is the roll for white mages. | |
01-18-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Dearest corsairs,
Just wanted to deliver some feedback that was being discussed on the Japanese forums in regards to Quick Draw and Rolls.
Quote: Personally, I would like to focus on Phantom Roll + Quick Draw + Weapon Skills.
(With the current system for Phantom Roll)
What is currently severely lacking is the number of charges for Quick Draw.
I would like this adjusted so that it would be possible to pull off something like the following rotation: Roll→2 Draws → Roll → 2 Draws…→Weapon Skill → Roll…
As such, I would like the number of charges for Quick Draw to be increased to about 6. Increasing the number of charges will lead to an increase in damage dealt over the same time span, so this is something we have to look into very carefully.
Since Quick Draw is an ability, it can be used quickly and there is not much down time, which means that it is more convenient than ranged attacks and it is possible to deal as much damage as a weapon skill, based on how it is used. If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers.
If we do end up increasing the number of charges, we would have to nerf its effects to maintain balance. Whether or not it would be worth nerfing the effects to increase the number of charges is an issue that we are investigating with the help of your feedback.
In addition, we plan on adding enfeebling effects to Quick Draw in the enfeebling spell adjustments we have planned, so please look forward to these changes as well. | |
01-19-2012 03:30 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep | |
| [dev1069] Corsair Job Adjustments
*This content is currently in development and may differ in the release version.
| |
02-02-2012 04:30 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| As a result of the development team’s investigation as well as feedback we received, we will be once again changing the effect of Gallant’s Roll from “damage reduction” to “increased defense.”
This roll’s defense increase effect will increase a character’s defense by a percentage, so characters with already high defense will benefit largely from this.
As a different idea we looked into “physical damage reduction,” but the effect itself increased by a percentage, which made it not possible to make the effect values very large thus creating the concern that the roll itself wouldn’t be too useful. Paladin’s who have a wealth of damage reduction gear would cap out too easily and attackers/back-line jobs would become disproportionate by having this along with other high defense stats, so we determined this to be an unrealistic route. | |
02-08-2012 05:55 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.
As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.
In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.
Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.
Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.
For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.
Setup
Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)
Results
Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage
Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference. | |
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