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By daddyrabbit4444 2011-04-10 00:58:19
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was wonder what kind of numbers a pup can dish out compared to a blm? is pup still the best nuker in game? what kind of blizz 5 numbers can a pup put out anyway in aby.?
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 Ramuh.Mizuharu
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By Ramuh.Mizuharu 2011-04-10 01:25:42
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Honestly, BLM is still the best nuker in the game in terms of how much they can put out and how quickly. PUP is rather situational in the sense that, depending on how you're nuking a monster, you need to do certain things. Like if you're just going to ADD, then you have to wait on Deactivate's timer to repop. Also, the automaton will want to Aspir I/II monsters after it drops to a certain % of MP remaining (if the target has MP.) BLMs with the right MP control (refresh, Conserve MP procing, atmas) can just keep nuking. Still, I mostly solo things as PUP with BLM frame due to it being rather reliable if you have a proper kite set up.

As for numbers, I'm not really geared with the Pet: MAB+ gear that is recommended, but the numbers can be relatively high. My Lobo does about 5500 Blizzard V in Abyssea. If you want to focus on Pet: MAB to cap out your damage, then go with magian H2Hs with that augment, and maybe redo your ACP/ASA armor with pet augments.

Unless the BLM has Emp armor effect proc on a Blizzard V, PUP could nuke the same, if not higher, than BLMs in Abyssea. But again, BLM can actually choose what to cast and gear swaps and blah blah blah things automatons can't do cause of AI system.
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 Phoenix.Degs
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By Phoenix.Degs 2011-04-10 01:30:36
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With atma's in abyssea.. BLM can do higher nukes... even with MAB+ gear on for auto. (even though we can throw out some powerful nukes).
Outside of abyssea, its probably even.
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-04-10 01:41:59
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Yeah I can easily top that in abyssea even without either of the +50 mab atmas. And my gear isn't that great anymore. No +2s at all lol
 Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2011-04-10 02:33:50
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Wait, can easily top what without +50 mab atmas? lol
 Ramuh.Mizuharu
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By Ramuh.Mizuharu 2011-04-10 02:47:51
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(MAB+35~46(+36 from MABV and 10 from Ice Potency + 5/5 merits: 81~92; Varies if Full Moon isn't present) INT+46(base varies with race) Elemental(w/merits):399 Magic acc+24) +30% Ice damage w/ staff)
This set; yeah. PUP would not out nuke imo. DEFINATLY not if they had mythic staff. Odds of you getting a BLM like this? Kinda low since if you have a BLM like this present, odds are you aren't even on PUP because you'll be fighting something BIG and you'll have another job people want more. However, in an exp set where most are just wearing +1 and teal, along with some diamond rings and no novio cause they're just a "key whored to this level and now I'm skilling up" kinda thing (which, let's face it, there's more of those than this above.)? Yeah, you're going to out do them. I don't mind saying that PUP is more of a "relaxed" job compared to others. So again, someone in the above set up would outdo a PUP hands down... Unless you're HARDCORE and have something like...


(Pet: MAB+15(+55 from Ice Maneuverx3 w/ Loudspeaker 1/2(+10% (5.5) from Optic Fiber) and 10 from Mana Channeler (+10% (1) from Optic fiber) for 76.5MAB) Magic acc+12 INT85+34(119) Magic: 381)
Now that might not seem like it'd be enough, but you also get +60% damage boost from Ice Maker attachment if you have it on with the two Loudspeakers. And since the OP asked about abyssea, Atma of the Ultimate/Beyond/MM is what I use so that'd be another 30% damage boost for using an Ice spell and 80MAB and 50INT yes?

BLM
INT:??+96 (if someone wants to give me a based INT for 90BLM to put in, that'd be great~)
MAB: (81~92+50) 131~142
Bonus: +30%(40% on Icesday; 50% if you have Hailstorm)+30% from Atma of Beyond (Total between 60%~80%)

BLM PUP
INT:85+84(169)
MAB:156.5(I want to say it rounds up, but not saying for certain)
Bonus: +60% with Three Ice Maneuvers. +30% w/ Atma of Beyond. Random +10% on Icesday (Total between +40%(no maneuvers)~100%)

All in all, I think it about evens out. Tarutaru BLM would most likely win since I think they have like 90ish base INT? Something like that...

(Eww I put Animator in the item set... Now I look like a noob PUP...)
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 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-04-10 02:48:45
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Yeah don't have ultimate or hells gaurdian :(.

Kinda curious to what I could really do if I did weird and/or crazy stuff
 Leviathan.Draylo
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-04-10 02:52:29
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PUP lol...
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 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-04-10 03:12:26
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@Ramuh.Mizuharu

Theres a few things off.

First blm gear:

Searing cape better. Galdr ring better. You seem to be assuming day/weather so twilight cape af2 pants probably and the wotg ring. Also ffxi miscounted the MAB on that you actually have 41 not counting the neck so 51 on best moon phase. Blm mythic staff is crap. Missing a strap...

Pup gear/manuevers:

Full maneuvers with loud speaker 1/2 is only 45. Pretty sure there is no such thing as .5 MAB and everything rounds down in ffxi. But you kinda added stuff together wrong up there so comes out to only slightly lower at 75.

Conceptual errors:

Day/weather is factored seperately from staffs/atma which is also seperate from ice maker bonus. Also if you are going to assume the pup gets lucky with procs might as well assume blm does too and uses a better waist peice and assume it crits while you are at it.



Oh and as a int merited taru I have 98 base int blm/rdm.
 Ramuh.Mizuharu
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By Ramuh.Mizuharu 2011-04-10 03:16:42
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Okay, so here's the two BLM sets I made up. (adding atmas now)

MAB:36+58~69(Atmas:138~149(+36 from job traits; 174~185) (47 normally. Then add 1MAB for New Moon; 12 Full moon. Extra 10 from Ice 5/5 merits making 58~69)
INT:+39 (Tarutaru merited INT = 98+39; 137(Atma:187))
Damage Bonus:+60%[Staff/Atma] + +10~20%[Day/Weather]

Then one that focuses on the exploiting the day/weather.

MAB:36+46~57(Atmas:162~173)
INT:+42 (98+42; 140. (Atma:190))
Damage Bonus: +60%[Staff&Atma] +23%[Day w/ Cape/Ring/Pants]/38%[Day&Weather w/ Cape/Ring/Pants]

I think I did those right... Don't really play BLM so I was going with what people said about pants/cape from the item searches. Anyway, yeah. Tarutaru BLM God Mode is God. And you are correct about it being +45. Idk why I typed 55 >.> Anywho, PUP math...


MAB:45[LoudspeakerI&II + (45[Speakers] x .10[Optic Fiber Bonus]; 4) + 16 [4 on each earring/ring] + 7[ACP Body] + 10[H2H] + 10[Mana Channeler] + (10[Mana C.] x .10[Optic Fiber]; 1) + 80[Atmas] Total: 173
INT: Base INT 85 + 21(7x3[Maneuvers] +50 [Atma] + 13 [Boots+2] Total: 169
Bonus: 60% [Ice Maker w/ Maneuverx3] + 30% [Atma]

Ugh I HATE math at 4am... Okay, so...

MAB
1) BLM[MAB] 174~185
2) PUP 173
2~3) BLM[Day/Weather] 162~173

INT
1) BLM[MAB] 187
2) BLM[Day/Weather] 183
3) PUP 169

Bonus
1) BLM[Day/Weather] 60% + 23/38%
2) PUP 60% + 30%
3) BLM[MAB] 60% + 10/20%

Okay, I think that looks right... Everyone can feel free to correct me if needed. I went ahead and took out the random chance for 10% boost from day/weather for PUP since you had a problem with that and I'm not quite sure how to calculate how much a magic crit would add to damage.

As shown above, with the BLM being a Taru, it is basically a no-contest against PUP's BLM frame given the right circumstances. But, just going by these numbers (and that Empy AF armor set effect doesn't proc) I still say that, while it might not surpass a taru BLM (as I mentioned before), it comes damn near close in terms of numbers (wish PUP INT was a bit higher lol...)

Compared to other BLMs? Well, just take your base INT of your race as a BLM and compare it to the gear up there for PUP. That's how you'd compare to an automaton.
 Ramuh.Mizuharu
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By Ramuh.Mizuharu 2011-04-10 04:41:57
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wtf double post >.>
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By daddyrabbit4444 2011-04-10 13:50:28
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wait.. does diamond ring with its +9 ice increase pup nuke dmg?
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-04-10 14:08:24
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daddyrabbit4444 said:
wait.. does diamond ring with its +9 ice increase pup nuke dmg?
No ice resistance does not increase nuking dmg
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 Fenrir.Omgwtftaru
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By Fenrir.Omgwtftaru 2011-04-10 14:21:33
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Ramuh.Mizuharu said:



MAB:45[LoudspeakerI&II + (45[Speakers] x .10[Optic Fiber Bonus]; 4) + 16 [4 on each earring/ring] + 7[ACP Body] + 10[H2H] + 10[Mana Channeler] + (10[Mana C.] x .10[Optic Fiber]; 1) + 80[Atmas] Total: 173
INT: Base INT 85 + 21(7x3[Maneuvers] +50 [Atma] + 13 [Boots+2] Total: 169
Bonus: 60% [Ice Maker w/ Maneuverx3] + 30% [Atma]

Diamond earring only actually gives +2MAB to pets at most and Diamond ring doesn't give any MAB to pets. Wiki is wrong about that.
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By daddyrabbit4444 2011-04-10 14:43:40
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earring accualy gives 2 to pets i seriouly doubt that that would make those earring pucking uber for pup nuker
 Leviathan.Draylo
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-04-10 17:49:20
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Seems someone can't post soo lol

Spicyryan said:
LOLPUP
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 Ramuh.Mizuharu
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By Ramuh.Mizuharu 2011-04-10 21:07:42
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Ah, I see now how wiki was wrong. Says 1~4 on Pet page, then 1~2 on coffer page. Well then,

MAB
1) BLM[MAB] 174~185
2) BLM[Day/Weather] 162~173
3) PUP 161
But still, Automaton is pretty high up there. You'd have to be going against a pro BLM Taru with above gear to have no worries of a robot replacing you. Like those self check-outs in stores! Then again, BLMs can freely choose what they cast where as Automaton is limited to casting the strongest spell they believe will not be resisted (kinda handy at times except against mobs that are naturally resistant to magic.

On a side note...

Where am I?! Could have at least added the Guilmon bread icon I always used!

Quick little thought. The BST/DRG armor you get with trophies in Abyssea... Does it have pet augments? If that's the case, maybe the MNK/SAM/PUP would too... Long shot though >.> And honestly, it'd have to be either better than 13INT, 10 Magic skill, Magic ATK/Acc+7 or on head/hands armor...
 Odin.Esor
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By Odin.Esor 2011-04-11 01:12:31
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on wyverns in abys grauberg with 3 ice maneuvers, my puppet does 6075+ bliz V (not counting day bonus)

using this set

MM/beyond/ult

loudspk 1/2 channeler/optic/ice maker etc

maybe post damage to compare to blms? i know that this is enough damage to one shot the wyverns.
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By Lakshmi.Greggles 2011-04-11 01:41:46
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Diamond Ring with INT+2. Also, I have a sorc ring for outside of Abyssea.

Atmas I use are Minikin Monstrosity, Ultimate, and Beyond. I'm a taru.

Here's my BLM nuking set. I consistently hit around 5.4-5.7k on mobs, I haven't done wyverns since I got Varuna's +1. I don't know how much I'd do with the extra affinity. I don't think I'd do 6k without a proc though. :(
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-04-11 01:49:38
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I'll try later I guess
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [42 days between previous and next post]
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By Dragkon 2011-05-22 14:13:51
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I have yet run into a BLM that can out nuke my Automaton...Now that being said, YES blm will beat us over all because they can cast MUCH faster and much more frequently than we can. Also our damage is a tad bit more fickle on regular mobs BUT on NMs our damage remains consistent and at a higher damage output than blm. So for flashy numbers, yea PUP looks sweet, but I'll be the first to admit that BLM will win DoT
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By daddyrabbit4444 2011-05-22 18:01:18
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dont forget about all our iceday gear as well for blm obi,sor tonban,and twilight cape ect. my blm hits over 6k on iceday bliz 5's