AGI On DNC

You control what evolith you put in. Each NM will give a different one but the amount can range on that nm. Of course it has to fit that equipment. And that equipment has to be etchable. ANd the size has to fit which means you might have to HQ the etching. But you can erase it easy so not locked in. And yes it is as complicated as it sounds. Maybe more so
Specifically there is 1-6 ws triple attack. It's usually the lower ones which is why it was thought to be 1-3 for a long time. Like 2-20 dagger ws att. And then some magic you can chose. Most of which suck unless you are a blu.

Pretty much same for all weapons except pole has double att and acc. gsd has acc and and double attack I think. Swd is crit hit and att. And staff no idea. All have magic at the end though

For Synergy weapons/armour, there are about 3 stages to it. You have to "etch" the slots into it first. You select an elemental allignment+shape from the list they give and have to synergise it.

The irritating part is that you have to "HQ" the slot, as in, hit the target exactly to get the maximum size of the slot. THEN you have to go and do the new Hunt Registry and kill NMs, which give you the evolith.. which again has a fluctuation to it as in... WS Triple Attack + 3~6%. So you may need to do them multiple times.

Then you synergise it again onto the weapon/armour, IF it fits the slot size and type you selected. I have a Furia coat I made on my screenshot file as means of demonstration. I'm actually going to redo Tegmine until I get an MAB+3/4 Evolith to put in that slot. The problem is, the MAB+3 Evolith can be size 6 OR 7.. 7 wiuld be too big to fit in the slot on the coat, which is actually maxed...

Bah I'm rambling, but that's the basic cliffnotes overview. Far too restrictive/time consuming for pointlessly specific evolith are killing it for me right now.

Really? So far out of the like 30 or so evolith stones I've gotten from 2 nms every size corresponds to a specific number of whatever stat it is. Also you don't "have" to HQ. Sometimes... too often in fact the highest you can put on it is some lol low amount of stat that could fit on there even if you barely were able to complete the etching.

Also as far as armor goes what color you have plays a huge role in the size and elements available. All of them have vs family on the first 2 and some magic one on the 3rd.

If I remember correctly For ebon bodys first slot is size 8 and dark elements while the second slot is 6 and light elements and the and last is size 5 with dark elements.

Furia is the same but reversed on the elements. So say for Bez up there ebon would be better cause he can get an 8 slot for dark element (IE MAB). Plus 1st slot easiest to HQ. Unless he wants like wants to put on say certain element +magic crit hit rate on the 3rd slot. If it makes a 1MAB difference on what you can put on though... at least for flan epeenage might be better

Ebur is where stuff gets good. They switch the elements around for 1. So first slot is fire ice wind earth size 8. 2nd is the rest size 8. The last is all elements size 8. But ebur pigment only drops of the new HNMs. What is great about this is not just the size but the alignment of the elements. NO more acc and att on the same slots. OR racc/ratt or MAB/macc etc.

I think I've seen a Size 7 MAB+3, could be wrong, but yeah, Ebur Pigment is the killer. Fortunately I can always redye it, and redo the slots. That coat was pretty much mostly soloed... on DNC funnily enough, /attemptedontopic. Best I could do with the resources on hand at the time. But yeah Ebur is the good stuff. If I ever got tired with it though, I did get an Aptant: Fryst from Frost Flambeau while doing the MCrit evolith, that returns the coat to the base form to resell it, so really havent lost anything for the experiment.

Optimally the Ebur would have vsMAB 4 MCrit4 vsMACC6, which is possible, but yeah, resources on hand just to build a Flan ePeen piece for me, not happening XD

gimpy dnc :<

Suck my ***, you don't even have merits. :<

NO U

Not sure how those 2 are related... oh wait you got it thru merits.

Off topic question:

Whats better for dnc ancient torque or love torque?
Or what to use when?

Ancient is 11acc and of course slight increase to crit hit and ws mod. Depending on rounding love is 6-7 + 2-3. So 8-10. Never be as much acc however the difference in acc isn't that great and if your acc is capped it's probably overcapped by at least that much and the att is nice.

For ws love will again be more dmg. But a now it will be even more cause of the extra dex too

I must cover my eyes!

:( wry

thanks, mhhhh guess tp then in ancient ws in love

but I read somewhere, love = acc+att due to the daggerskill, so propably better if Im hitting for 0?

Yes the skill will give you about 6.3 att as well. Hence the higher dot and if you are capped why it will be better to tp in. Mind you if you are offhanding joy toy it won't be enjoying all that acc from skill

dont use joytoy at all, either adder+1/cinq or adder+1/airy buckler for dd or cinq/airy for heal/support

mhh well I have to try some few fights again endgame mobs then :D

ty for your advices. ^^

Wrong. Almost any place that DNC is practical(weaker mobs, where their tp given to mob is irrelevant), Joyeuse will be a viable offhand. As a rule of thumb, if a DNC with decent gear and sushi can't get sword hitrate high enough to be worth using, it's likely a high enough level mob that you'd be better off with a mage healer and additional attack buffs than waltz+samba.

I used to be so against Joy...but it isn't so bad really! I fully merited sword and such. For IT mobs though I suggest 2 daggers :X But in Campaign, Dynamis...joyuse works fine for me :)

terribly flawed logic.. you need to look at tp gain per swing, relative delay, etc.. comparing to 2x ermines or adder+1 or plain jambiya+1
While you clearly know what to use, you're just bandwagonning it as demonstrated by your severe lack of knowledge regarding anything more complicated than the 4 elementary arithmetic functions.

Adder+1/Ermines/Jambiya+1 x2: 4.9 tp per hit with suppa, brutal, rajas for only modifications from gear, since there are no other worthwhile ones.. 2.1 attacks/round on average without saber dance or a weird subjob
2.1 * 4.9 = 10.29 avg tp per round / 311 delay = relative tp gain of .033 per delay before acc

Adder+1/Joyeuse: 5 tp per hit with suppa, brutal, rajas for only modifications from gear, since there are no other worthwhile ones..
mainhand(1 swing, 5% DA = 1.05 average)
offhand(5% DA, 50% double proc, of the 95% that don't DA from brutal, 47.5 will DA from joy trait, average of 1.525 swings per round)
2.575 * 5 = 12.875 / 335 delay = .038 tp per delay before acc

Now, as you can see, this isn't as simple as you make it out to be. You can't just use '45% more' when comparing variables that are dependant.. you need to specify what they're more in relation to, which often complicates your math further. 215 sword 256 dagger before merits with suppa.. this means you lose out on 41 acc. 20.5% hitrate, need to break it down further:
.033 * (Dagger Hitrate expressed as a percent, X) = TP per delay with combination of adder+1/jambiya+1/ermines

(((1.05 * (X)) + (1.525 * (X - .205)) * 5) / 335) = tp per delay with adder+1/Jambiya+1/ermines subbing joyeuse

Example;

85% hitrate with dagger
.033 * .85 = .028 tp per delay with daggers
(((1.05 * (X)) + (1.525 * (X - .205)) * 5) / 335)
(((1.05 * (.85)) + (1.525 * (.85 - .205)) * 5) / 335)
((.8925 + (1.525 * (.645)) * 5) / 335)
((.8925 + .9836) * 5) / 335
9.3805 / 335
.028 tp per delay with sword
The inflection point where dual daggers outdo dagger/sword is almost exactly 85% hitrate(dagger(64.5% sword)). If you cannot procure 2 194 delay daggers, if one changes to 201 sword pulls ahead at lower acc due to tp per hit changing. If you're below this rate, either your gear/food sucks or you're fighting a very high end monster. As DNC's relative benefits drop greatly on higher end monsters, if it's the latter you should probably not be on the job at all. Realistically, DNC always offhands Joyeuse.

Cause Ninian used to be Francesca von Karma, and the visual of that w/ a penis is like trying to ruin my childhood, except for I played that game after I was 18!

Get a cinq offhand and keep saber dance up and you will out tp joy toy even if you capped acc on both swd and dag.

Yea, but not sure he really believes in fulltime saberdance. Him and I had this discussion earlier. I was setting up a pt example and he said it would be better for some of the other jobs to swap up on SJ for dealing more damage while keeping the dnc on reserve heal mode would contribute more dmg than the dnc himself.

As far as the math goes, i won't even try to refute it, as he's always been the man behind the man to begin with. Anytime I'm uncertain w/ my ffxi math, I go to him or raen to double check it for me.

Pretty certian 1 skill always = 1 attack.

Correct

Well Im doing just fine on Gods, kirin, Omega, Dynamis Mobs without sub weapon joyeuse, I can land the moste hits, and thats even without the use of food.

Just wanted to know when to use ancient and when to use love.

But all this dnc stuffs you all wrote are really interesting ^^

I point at the last post I made, which shows not only the math behind it, but the equations to use to decide which gives more tp. Name an IT+ mob and ally setup where DNC is a better job choice than another job and I'll concede that Joyeuse isn't always the best DNC offhand. In before nonsense about not having other jobs/etc, every decent endgame player has 5+ 75s in this day and age.. not sure why I'm even justifying your *** with a response, NQ staff and wedding gear on.

A few glaring errors in Souji's math:

1. Joyeuse is 50%.
2. Brutal Earring overwrites possible Joyeuse proc. This lowers it's effectiveness, but does not remove it.
3. Amemet+1 instead of Cuch? Sniper/Woodsman/Blood? WTF is a Toreador's/Mars's? Dusk Ledelsens? If you aren't springing for +1, get enkidu.
4. What the *** is a CUK? I tried looking at a list of all daggers, but couldn't find anything that abbreviation would fit.. even with delays. Granted, he probably calculated his delay wrong as well. Mouthbreather.

Now your just being picky. Lol a situation where DNC is the best job choice. IE basically saying that you aren't using the best DD tool dnc has. Yes that would make joytoy better. If you actually do use saber dance however that's a completely different story.

It's nothing about the saber dance vs no saber dance argument, the point was that any mob high enough level that joyeuse is no longer viable for gaining tp is also likely high enough that DNC damage is no longer viable. There are stray cases where you'll be useful as a haste samba ***(though typically on higher end mobs, it's a poor use of a party slot comparatively.. brds and cors can rotate parties, dnc can't).

As far as saber dance is concerned, the only time it will increase your groups total output by more than not using it is if you have sufficient healing that nobody will ever die or have to use defensive JAs/spells -AND- the healing cannot change to a job that will output more damage if you were to use your tp on waltzes. I can write up an example party setup and calculate damage for everyone to illustrate this later(~2 hrs), but I have class in a few minutes.

CUK= Cobra Unit Knife, Eriuddo. At the time that math was done I assume it was the lowest delay dagger DNC could use, no longer the case with Cinq, obviously.

Didn't we also go over this "can DNC DD?" issue a couple weeks back anyways...?

Outside of being able to lowman tank+heal a few NMs on a similar level to NIN/RDM or RDM/NIN, really cant say there are many situations I'd actually prefer to go DNC on IT++ stuff though.

I do think that Stutter Step is under-utilised in a lot of situations though. In a situation where you were doing Love with mainly BLM for DD, a DNC would probably contribute in lowered resists moreso than an extra mage, on top of capably healing the tank (Petrify nonwithstanding) without having to rely on MP; can't really say for certain though.

Not the fastest, ergo "best" way to do it, of course, but probably the lowest manpower you could safely do it. DNC/NIN can most likely also reliably hold a Ru'Phaubo much better than any other job indefinitely. Not that Ru'Phaubos are IT++, but still a potential application.