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St. Louis, Missouri Vs. The Police: Heaven or Hell, Duel 1! Let's rock!
By Blazed1979 2014-09-28 13:38:06
Gun shot wounds - majority are in suspect's right arm. If a trained police officer was trying to kill someone you would think they would at least unload into the abdomen or the head.
Adrenaline is proven to affect accuracy when using a firearm, especially one that's not shoulder mounted (such as a handgun). He may have been aiming at center mass, but got the arms.
There's no department that I'm aware of that trains to shoot in the head, it's always center mass as to limit missed rounds and collateral damage.
Also, if a trained police officer draws their firearm and fires a round, they're not shooting to maim/disarm/scare/warn they're shooting to stop a threat, in other words, to kill.
I'm fairly certain S.W.A.T are trained for head shots, as are counter terrorism units.
The other two points are assumptions - first that the officer's adrenaline levels were effecting their actions is speculative at best. More realistically I imagine they are trained to not panic under situations and exercise restraint in the situation as best as they can, as per their training.
Second, that discharging a firearm is purely to execute lethal force to kill isn't necessarily true. There's a lot of documented cases of police officers discharging their firearms to subdue and stop the threat.
This officer discharged 7 shots as far as I am aware, the first 5 ended up in the suspect's arm.
Also as far as I am aware there was no autopsy. Why not? I want to know if the suspect was on any adrenaline enhancing and mind chemically altering drugs such as PCP.
EDIT: On the testimonies of witnesses - forensics disproved 3 of them. They said the officer shot the suspect from the back, forensics showed the bullets points of entry were all from the front.
Is it entirely implausible that the officer was acting accordingly and had no other choice? I'm not letting my disgust and loathing of police brutality sway my judgement on this. I really want to see some evidence that the officer was out for blood.
*Posts things on the forum hating the US*[/u]
*Claims he knows how the police force in the US is trained*
Logic. I asked my uncle who is a cop and uses a standard issue glock, they aren't trained for headshots, the suspect can't give any information if they just went out and busted a cap in the person's head.
If by disagreeing with American foreign policy one is guilty of "hating the US" then pretty much everyone is guilty of hating the US at one time or another, including present and past US presidents.
"*Claims he knows how the police force in the US is trained*"
"Logic" - you keep using that word but I'm not certain you know what it means. For one can both hate something and understand it. However, I never implied that I hate the US or am an authority of how US police are trained. Another generic fallacy.
What I actually said was "I'm fairly certain S.W.A.T are trained for head shots, as are counter terrorism units."
Someone on the internet saying their uncle said no doesn't really give me much to go on. I've tried a few searches and couldn't come up with much. Again, if you could read you would see that my post was overwhelmingly speculative for a discussion and an invitation to be corrected by those who have invested more time into reading and researching the case.
But thanks for showing me I shouldn't waste time reading your posts anymore, so early into your post count. Took me a bit longer to establish Jet as a mindless drone, to his credit. You however, well its pretty clear from your first interaction with me.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-28 14:00:44
I'm aware of police brutality and how its more common than many would like to think, but on this case, after hearing the details, I'm with the cops.
-he robbed a store 30 mins before the police saw him walking in the middle of the street. The description of the suspect matched. Has no bearing on why he was shot. He was walking in the street and told to move to the sidewalk. This incident did not start because of a robbery.
Quote: -Police rolls down window to talk to him. Gets heated, officer tries to step out of car, suspect reaches through window and starts assaulting him.
-He flees, officers gives chase.
-When he catches up to him, suspect turns around and yells then charges officer.
After the initial interaction we don't know what happened because
a) there is no incident report that explains what happened. Only one generated 10 days after the shooting that lists the date and names of who came to the site. But nothing which states what happened, no list of witnesses.
b) different witnesses say different things
c) something happened with Brown in the window but all the witnesses are saying different things.
Quote: -Gun shot wounds - majority are in suspect's right arm. If a trained police officer was trying to kill someone you would think they would at least unload into the abdomen or the head. Head shots are not really sought after since that is not as easy to hit on a moving object compared to the center mass. However, 2 out of at least 6 shots were in the head. One into the top of his head, the shot that was fatal according to one medical examiner.
Quote: -the witnesses that came forward for the most part have been shown to have given false testimony. You'll have to provide a reference for this as I don't know of everyone being shown to give out false testimony. There was a false report by a reporter claiming that the police had 12 witnesses corroborating their version of event.
In fact there was an audio recording of the shots handed over to the FBI.
Quote: -this teen was HUGE. He wasn't 5'8 110-150 lbs kid. He was over 6'3 if memory serves and close to 300 lbs. So? It seems most of the shots came at a distance because there was no gunpowder residue on his body. We don't know about clothes because that medical report has not been released.
Quote: Don't flame if you disagree, give me the updated details. I made my mind up about this case based on the coverage I watched on the mainstream media due to lack of timing. I could have been fed a load of ***, seeing as its from the mainstream media. So I'll gladly accept what I know to be wrong, but based on what I do know - the cop did nothing wrong. At this point to me the major problems are how the police reacted to peaceful protests, how they have mislead, outright lied, and acted like power crazed asshats after this shooting. There is a problem with that department. Whether this shooting turns out to be "justified" or not.
I posted this on the previous page. It is a good overview from 6 weeks ago along with citations, photos, and video. The humor might not be to your taste
The police behavior is inexcusable. Intimidating journalists, using tear gas against them, getting suited up for WWIII and using heavy handed tactics - all of it terrible. I agree with you on that. I'm questioning whether the persona some media have attributed to Brown is accurate. I don't believe it is and I think this became politically charged from day 1.
Fact: The officer in question was assaulted in his car by an individual. Some say it was Brown, some say it was his friend. If it was his friend, I would imagine the police would have arrested him or brought him in for questioning right away.
Fact: The officer's gun was discharged inside the vehicle during the scuffle. Hypothesis 1: Officer discharged his weapon inside the vehicle because he was being overpowered. Hypothesis 2: Officer discharged his weapon inside the vehicle aiming for Brown or his friend for whatever reason (less likely). Hypothesis 3: The officer's gun went off as an accident, not intended by either the officer or Brown or his friend. In all 3 scenarios its more likely that the officer had some kind of physical fall out with Brown or his friend. In which case, Brown has already committed a felony.
Fact#2: The police didn't take Brown's friend (Dorion Johnson) testimony and as far as I know, still haven't taken his testimony. This could be the most damning fact in how Ferguson Police are dealing/dealt with the case as well as the most damning fact for Brown - as it means it was Brown who made the move for the officer's gun while he(or his upper torso was bent) was inside the vehicle.
By daoming 2014-09-28 17:02:25
If by disagreeing with American foreign policy one is guilty of "hating the US" then pretty much everyone is guilty of hating the US at one time or another, including present and past US presidents.
"*Claims he knows how the police force in the US is trained*"
"Logic" - you keep using that word but I'm not certain you know what it means. For one can both hate something and understand it. However, I never implied that I hate the US or am an authority of how US police are trained. Another generic fallacy.
What I actually said was "I'm fairly certain S.W.A.T are trained for head shots, as are counter terrorism units."
Someone on the internet saying their uncle said no doesn't really give me much to go on. I've tried a few searches and couldn't come up with much. Again, if you could read you would see that my post was overwhelmingly speculative for a discussion and an invitation to be corrected by those who have invested more time into reading and researching the case.
But thanks for showing me I shouldn't waste time reading your posts anymore, so early into your post count. Took me a bit longer to establish Jet as a mindless drone, to his credit. You however, well its pretty clear from your first interaction with me.
ROFL!!! OMG PLEASE TELL ME MORE ON HOW I KEEP USING THE WORD LOGIC. I really only used it once in my entire post.
Ok, make sure you put your kicking and screaming booties on.
Quote: "*Claims he knows how the police force in the US is trained*"
"Logic" - you keep using that word but I'm not certain you know what it means. For one can both hate something and understand it. However, I never implied that I hate the US or am an authority of how US police are trained. Another generic fallacy.
I really don't think you understand. Logic is the understanding and usage of information and reasoning. You sir are beyond reasoning and think whatever you say is gold being shat out of your ***. You do not know how the police force in a foreign country is trained, otherwise you're going to be citing Ohio Revised Code Section 2901.01. I want it in all of its entirety repeated back to me, you're not allowed to use Google or any other source of online information.
In terms of what SWAT is trained, they're also trained for non-lethal takedowns as priority #1, lethal is if there is no other options and all humane and reasonable options have been exhausted, again the same rules apply to them as they are simply another part of law enforcement. They are trained mostly to carry rifles, more than likely they have been trained to go for the head in those situations such as a criminal using a hostage as a living shield, in such cases there's no other choice than to go for the head.
Also as stated above, my uncle showed me the Ohio Revised Code, which is still effective today. It details everything needed in every situation, such as dealing with juveniles, thugs, and the event of forced lethality.
____________________________________________________________
That's all fine and dandy if you don't want to read my posts, you're about as dumb and as *** ignorant as they come.
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Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-09-29 02:07:49
I'm aware of police brutality and how its more common than many would like to think, but on this case, after hearing the details, I'm with the cops.
-he robbed a store 30 mins before the police saw him walking in the middle of the street. The description of the suspect matched. Has no bearing on why he was shot. He was walking in the street and told to move to the sidewalk. This incident did not start because of a robbery.
Quote: -Police rolls down window to talk to him. Gets heated, officer tries to step out of car, suspect reaches through window and starts assaulting him.
-He flees, officers gives chase.
-When he catches up to him, suspect turns around and yells then charges officer.
After the initial interaction we don't know what happened because
a) there is no incident report that explains what happened. Only one generated 10 days after the shooting that lists the date and names of who came to the site. But nothing which states what happened, no list of witnesses.
b) different witnesses say different things
c) something happened with Brown in the window but all the witnesses are saying different things.
Quote: -Gun shot wounds - majority are in suspect's right arm. If a trained police officer was trying to kill someone you would think they would at least unload into the abdomen or the head. Head shots are not really sought after since that is not as easy to hit on a moving object compared to the center mass. However, 2 out of at least 6 shots were in the head. One into the top of his head, the shot that was fatal according to one medical examiner.
Quote: -the witnesses that came forward for the most part have been shown to have given false testimony. You'll have to provide a reference for this as I don't know of everyone being shown to give out false testimony. There was a false report by a reporter claiming that the police had 12 witnesses corroborating their version of event.
In fact there was an audio recording of the shots handed over to the FBI.
Quote: -this teen was HUGE. He wasn't 5'8 110-150 lbs kid. He was over 6'3 if memory serves and close to 300 lbs. So? It seems most of the shots came at a distance because there was no gunpowder residue on his body. We don't know about clothes because that medical report has not been released.
Quote: Don't flame if you disagree, give me the updated details. I made my mind up about this case based on the coverage I watched on the mainstream media due to lack of timing. I could have been fed a load of ***, seeing as its from the mainstream media. So I'll gladly accept what I know to be wrong, but based on what I do know - the cop did nothing wrong. At this point to me the major problems are how the police reacted to peaceful protests, how they have mislead, outright lied, and acted like power crazed asshats after this shooting. There is a problem with that department. Whether this shooting turns out to be "justified" or not.
I posted this on the previous page. It is a good overview from 6 weeks ago along with citations, photos, and video. The humor might not be to your taste
The police behavior is inexcusable. Intimidating journalists, using tear gas against them, getting suited up for WWIII and using heavy handed tactics - all of it terrible. I agree with you on that. I'm questioning whether the persona some media have attributed to Brown is accurate. I don't believe it is and I think this became politically charged from day 1.
Fact: The officer in question was assaulted in his car by an individual. Some say it was Brown, some say it was his friend. If it was his friend, I would imagine the police would have arrested him or brought him in for questioning right away.
Fact: The officer's gun was discharged inside the vehicle during the scuffle. Hypothesis 1: Officer discharged his weapon inside the vehicle because he was being overpowered. Hypothesis 2: Officer discharged his weapon inside the vehicle aiming for Brown or his friend for whatever reason (less likely). Hypothesis 3: The officer's gun went off as an accident, not intended by either the officer or Brown or his friend. In all 3 scenarios its more likely that the officer had some kind of physical fall out with Brown or his friend. In which case, Brown has already committed a felony.
Fact#2: The police didn't take Brown's friend (Dorion Johnson) testimony and as far as I know, still haven't taken his testimony. This could be the most damning fact in how Ferguson Police are dealing/dealt with the case as well as the most damning fact for Brown - as it means it was Brown who made the move for the officer's gun while he(or his upper torso was bent) was inside the vehicle.
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By Voren 2014-09-29 03:23:35
I'm fairly certain S.W.A.T are trained for head shots, as are counter terrorism units.
I have no idea about the extent of training for S.W.A.T. teams, and obviously neither do you considering you said "fairly certain". Movies don't portray everything. What I do know for certain as having trained with S.W.A.T. a few times is that their first target is center mass. The only person our team has that trains for head shots is the sniper team, and they only take the shot under certain conditions and only with authorization from the commander on scene.
The other two points are assumptions - first that the officer's adrenaline levels were effecting their actions is speculative at best. More realistically I imagine they are trained to not panic under situations and exercise restraint in the situation as best as they can, as per their training.
I'll make a correction here. Adrenaline affects accuracy under certain circumstances, stress being one of them, but also depends upon the person. I've trained with people in a situation where we ran at a dead sprint for 30 yards, drew, and fired. Accuracy declined sharply. You can train to not panic all you want, but some times, in a perfect storm, things happen. I've seen a state trooper pump 11 rounds of .45ACP ball ammo into a suspect from 20ft away, one round hitting the suspect's neck, and the other rounds hitting arms, legs, abdomen (suspect lived, he was nicknamed spoungebob in county jail). I've also seen a hillbilly redneck country officer place 3 shots into a suspect from over 100ft distance and hit center mass every time. It's situational.
Second, that discharging a firearm is purely to execute lethal force to kill isn't necessarily true. There's a lot of documented cases of police officers discharging their firearms to subdue and stop the threat.
This officer discharged 7 shots as far as I am aware, the first 5 ended up in the suspect's arm.
You proved my point. They shot to stop the threat. Just because the suspect didn't die from the wounds doesn't mean that the officers weren't aiming to kill. Officers didn't necessarily place shots into a suspect's limbs, that's just where the shots landed.
Also as far as I am aware there was no autopsy. Why not? I want to know if the suspect was on any adrenaline enhancing and mind chemically altering drugs such as PCP.
Are you sure there was no autopsy, or just not one that's been released? There's a difference. Not everything needs to be released to the public, some things need to be saved for trial.
Is it entirely implausible that the officer was acting accordingly and had no other choice? I'm not letting my disgust and loathing of police brutality sway my judgement on this. I really want to see some evidence that the officer was out for blood.
I despise corrupt police and the use of inappropriate force. I've stated that many of times, so I can agree with you there. What I want you to do though is stop speaking like you're an expert when you're not. You use conjecture and assumptions and try to argue with a person that's been in U.S. law enforcement for over a decade. I will admit freely that I'm not well versed on laws, policies, and procedures from all 50 states, but there are certain aspects that go across the board.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-29 03:53:02
I'm fairly certain S.W.A.T are trained for head shots, as are counter terrorism units.
I have no idea about the extent of training for S.W.A.T. teams, and obviously neither do you considering you said "fairly certain". Movies don't portray everything. What I do know for certain as having trained with S.W.A.T. a few times is that their first target is center mass. The only person our team has that trains for head shots is the sniper team, and they only take the shot under certain conditions and only with authorization from the commander on scene.
The other two points are assumptions - first that the officer's adrenaline levels were effecting their actions is speculative at best. More realistically I imagine they are trained to not panic under situations and exercise restraint in the situation as best as they can, as per their training.
I'll make a correction here. Adrenaline affects accuracy under certain circumstances, stress being one of them, but also depends upon the person. I've trained with people in a situation where we ran at a dead sprint for 30 yards, drew, and fired. Accuracy declined sharply. You can train to not panic all you want, but some times, in a perfect storm, things happen. I've seen a state trooper pump 11 rounds of .45ACP ball ammo into a suspect from 20ft away, one round hitting the suspect's neck, and the other rounds hitting arms, legs, abdomen (suspect lived, he was nicknamed spoungebob in county jail). I've also seen a hillbilly redneck country officer place 3 shots into a suspect from over 100ft distance and hit center mass every time. It's situational.
Second, that discharging a firearm is purely to execute lethal force to kill isn't necessarily true. There's a lot of documented cases of police officers discharging their firearms to subdue and stop the threat.
This officer discharged 7 shots as far as I am aware, the first 5 ended up in the suspect's arm.
You proved my point. They shot to stop the threat. Just because the suspect didn't die from the wounds doesn't mean that the officers weren't aiming to kill. Officers didn't necessarily place shots into a suspect's limbs, that's just where the shots landed.
Also as far as I am aware there was no autopsy. Why not? I want to know if the suspect was on any adrenaline enhancing and mind chemically altering drugs such as PCP.
Are you sure there was no autopsy, or just not one that's been released? There's a difference. Not everything needs to be released to the public, some things need to be saved for trial.
Is it entirely implausible that the officer was acting accordingly and had no other choice? I'm not letting my disgust and loathing of police brutality sway my judgement on this. I really want to see some evidence that the officer was out for blood.
I despise corrupt police and the use of inappropriate force. I've stated that many of times, so I can agree with you there. What I want you to do though is stop speaking like you're an expert when you're not. You use conjecture and assumptions and try to argue with a person that's been in U.S. law enforcement for over a decade. I will admit freely that I'm not well versed on laws, policies, and procedures from all 50 states, but there are certain aspects that go across the board.
Noted and thank you for actually responding to the areas in question without going off tangent some raving lunatic.
Quote: Voren said: What I want you to do though is stop speaking like you're an expert when you're not.
I can see how someone would think the below post is made by one who thinks he is an expert on the subject...
Quote: Blazed started with: "Don't flame if you disagree, give me the updated details. I made my mind up about this case based on the coverage I watched on the mainstream media due to lack of timing. I could have been fed a load of ***, seeing as its from the mainstream media. So I'll gladly accept what I know to be wrong, but based on what I do know - the cop did nothing wrong." you would do well to not preframe me or my opinion. I'm not a FOX news anchor or Jet. I don't commit to a position and stand by it when the facts are at odds with it.
By daoming 2014-09-29 06:53:43
I'm sorry but you may just be legally HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE if you're going to just brush off cold facts.
By Voren 2014-09-29 07:33:20
you would do well to not preframe me or my opinion. I'm not a FOX news anchor or Jet. I don't commit to a position and stand by it when the facts are at odds with it.
You would also do well with not starting out a statement with "I'm fairly certain" when you don't have the experience or facts to back up what you're talking about.
I have admitted, on several occasions, that I can only confirm what the state of Oklahoma does or doesn't do in regards to laws and law enforcement with some things that do hold a broader base across most if not all states. All information I give can be easily confirmed by a simple google search.
In short, you make your statements sound as if it's fact, then when called on it you fall back on the "don't flame, I said I don't know and may be wrong" which is a chickenshit way to argue a point.
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By daoming 2014-09-29 07:42:42
Not only that but when you're hammered with the facts you won't even acknowledge this and just keep spouting nonsense. Blazed you are not a *** 2 year old, grow up.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 07:45:25
you would do well to not preframe me or my opinion. I'm not a FOX news anchor or Jet. I don't commit to a position and stand by it when the facts are at odds with it.
You would also do well with not starting out a statement with "I'm fairly certain" when you don't have the experience or facts to back up what you're talking about.
I have admitted, on several occasions, that I can only confirm what the state of Oklahoma does or doesn't do in regards to laws and law enforcement with some things that do hold a broader base across most if not all states. All information I give can be easily confirmed by a simple google search.
In short, you make your statements sound as if it's fact, then when called on it you fall back on the "don't flame, I said I don't know and may be wrong" which is a chickenshit way to argue a point. Isn't that because the only 2 credible witnesses to the event are the police officer and the kid who got shot?
Last I checked, dead men tell no tales....
By daoming 2014-09-29 07:48:13
you would do well to not preframe me or my opinion. I'm not a FOX news anchor or Jet. I don't commit to a position and stand by it when the facts are at odds with it.
You would also do well with not starting out a statement with "I'm fairly certain" when you don't have the experience or facts to back up what you're talking about.
I have admitted, on several occasions, that I can only confirm what the state of Oklahoma does or doesn't do in regards to laws and law enforcement with some things that do hold a broader base across most if not all states. All information I give can be easily confirmed by a simple google search.
In short, you make your statements sound as if it's fact, then when called on it you fall back on the "don't flame, I said I don't know and may be wrong" which is a chickenshit way to argue a point. Isn't that because the only 2 credible witnesses to the event are the police officer and the kid who got shot?
Last I checked, dead men tell no tales....
Another reason why they try to reduce casualties, civilians and criminals alike. When the justice system is working properly, the defendant will have the ability to defend themselves, but that's if they're alive...
By Voren 2014-09-29 07:51:37
Another reason why they try to reduce casualties, civilians and criminals alike. When the justice system is working properly, the defendant will have the ability to defend themselves, but that's if they're alive...
And also why I'm a big believer in talk down before take down.
By daoming 2014-09-29 08:21:10
Another reason why they try to reduce casualties, civilians and criminals alike. When the justice system is working properly, the defendant will have the ability to defend themselves, but that's if they're alive...
And also why I'm a big believer in talk down before take down.
You can save more lives if you can get the guy to spill his guts, I mean if you just kill him, does he have accomplices? You can prvent more deaths if you keep him alive and get information.
By fonewear 2014-09-29 08:22:35
I came here for Al Sharpton...
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By Blazed1979 2014-09-29 08:22:57
you would do well to not preframe me or my opinion. I'm not a FOX news anchor or Jet. I don't commit to a position and stand by it when the facts are at odds with it.
You would also do well with not starting out a statement with "I'm fairly certain" when you don't have the experience or facts to back up what you're talking about.
I have admitted, on several occasions, that I can only confirm what the state of Oklahoma does or doesn't do in regards to laws and law enforcement with some things that do hold a broader base across most if not all states. All information I give can be easily confirmed by a simple google search.
In short, you make your statements sound as if it's fact, then when called on it you fall back on the "don't flame, I said I don't know and may be wrong" which is a chickenshit way to argue a point. There's a difference between arguing and discussing. As for points, I never claimed to have one. In fact I went out of my way to say that I didn't in laymen terms that one such as yourself could comprehend. But its the internet and there's no real way to have an open discussion with people like you lurking around; people incapable of differentiating between an open discussion and an open debate.
I'm not here to argue. I've come to the conclusion that you DO want to argue. Good luck with that
By fonewear 2014-09-29 08:23:54
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By daoming 2014-09-29 08:41:41
you would do well to not preframe me or my opinion. I'm not a FOX news anchor or Jet. I don't commit to a position and stand by it when the facts are at odds with it.
You would also do well with not starting out a statement with "I'm fairly certain" when you don't have the experience or facts to back up what you're talking about.
I have admitted, on several occasions, that I can only confirm what the state of Oklahoma does or doesn't do in regards to laws and law enforcement with some things that do hold a broader base across most if not all states. All information I give can be easily confirmed by a simple google search.
In short, you make your statements sound as if it's fact, then when called on it you fall back on the "don't flame, I said I don't know and may be wrong" which is a chickenshit way to argue a point. There's a difference between arguing and discussing. As for points, I never claimed to have one. In fact I went out of my way to say that I didn't in laymen terms that one such as yourself could comprehend. But its the internet and there's no real way to have an open discussion with people like you lurking around; people incapable of differentiating between an open discussion and an open debate.
I'm not here to argue. I've come to the conclusion that you DO want to argue. Good luck with that
You don't have a point? Look up jackass, I might have to dig out every single post you've made and make one enormous post to prove that statement wrong. You walk around this forum thinking you know everything, and then when someone proves you wrong (Like myself on the Ohio Revised Code) you just play it off to look cool.
Bismarck.Chiisaku
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By Bismarck.Chiisaku 2014-09-29 15:58:57
the media has seem to make people think what they say is going on is really what's going on. coming from someone who lives in the area... its not. do i agree with an 18yo being shot and killed.. of course not.. but does it justify people from all over st. louis coming in and stealing everything they can get their hands on. or how bout going into businesses and harassing the workers. there was very little "peaceful" protesting all along. and now police officers are being shot at. i know some police are corrupt. its everywhere in this country. but because of the few that are now every cop is bad. but since when has it been bad to enforce the law. you break the law you get punished. its as simple as that
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-24 10:01:18
By volkom 2014-10-24 10:09:52
something about looting, throwing incendiary devices, shooting at police and destruction of property seems to be forgotten
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-24 10:13:38
After the third autopsy now, the only use for this crisis is to drum up the black vote across the country.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-24 10:28:07
After the third autopsy now, the only use for this crisis is to drum up the black vote across the country.
If it gives some perspective and transparency to the way some police departments are allowed to operate, I'd call it a net gain either way.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-24 10:53:23
After the third autopsy now, the only use for this crisis is to drum up the black vote across the country.
If it gives some perspective and transparency to the way some police departments are allowed to operate, I'd call it a net gain either way. Agreed.
But do you honestly think this will prevent pointless protesting, which pretty much drums up the entire Ferguson protests?
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-24 10:54:18
After the third autopsy now, the only use for this crisis is to drum up the black vote across the country.
If it gives some perspective and transparency to the way some police departments are allowed to operate, I'd call it a net gain either way. Agreed.
But do you honestly think this will prevent pointless protesting, which pretty much drums up the entire Ferguson protests?
Pointless is relative, ineffective maybe, but I don't see these protests as pointless.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-24 11:00:29
After the third autopsy now, the only use for this crisis is to drum up the black vote across the country.
If it gives some perspective and transparency to the way some police departments are allowed to operate, I'd call it a net gain either way. Agreed.
But do you honestly think this will prevent pointless protesting, which pretty much drums up the entire Ferguson protests?
Pointless is relative, ineffective maybe, but I don't see these protests as pointless. If there was actual police brutality that occurred, then the protests wouldn't be pointless.
Protesting for the sake of protesting is ineffective and pointless. All those "protesters" wanted to do is loot and pillage imo.
[+]
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-24 11:17:37
After the third autopsy now, the only use for this crisis is to drum up the black vote across the country.
If it gives some perspective and transparency to the way some police departments are allowed to operate, I'd call it a net gain either way. Agreed.
But do you honestly think this will prevent pointless protesting, which pretty much drums up the entire Ferguson protests?
Pointless is relative, ineffective maybe, but I don't see these protests as pointless. If there was actual police brutality that occurred, then the protests wouldn't be pointless.
Protesting for the sake of protesting is ineffective and pointless. All those "protesters" wanted to do is loot and pillage imo.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-24 11:20:59
Again, I'm not disagreeing with you.
I think that the Ferguson protests were pointless, even when it happened (because nobody knew what the facts were and were protesting by emotions, not by actual need for change).
Pointless is relative, and you may think that some protests are pointless in different times.
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By Asura.Ackeronll 2014-10-24 11:23:00
Jesus it's back from the dead!
They still have no clue what happened do they?
Other then a cop shot a guy that is.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-24 12:57:32
After the third autopsy now, the only use for this crisis is to drum up the black vote across the country.
If it gives some perspective and transparency to the way some police departments are allowed to operate, I'd call it a net gain either way. Agreed.
But do you honestly think this will prevent pointless protesting, which pretty much drums up the entire Ferguson protests?
Pointless is relative, ineffective maybe, but I don't see these protests as pointless. If there was actual police brutality that occurred, then the protests wouldn't be pointless.
Protesting for the sake of protesting is ineffective and pointless. All those "protesters" wanted to do is loot and pillage imo.
It's not pointless KN, it's a get out the vote strategy. Keep the black people angry and they'll show up to vote and bail out the democrats.
To recap the events going on:
It all started with this:
Quote: The fatal shooting of an unarmed black St. Louis teen Saturday has caused an outcry of anger toward the city’s police, with locals rallying in the streets and widening uproar on social media.
Eighteen-year-old Michael Brown was being placed in a police squad car, eyewitness Piaget Crenshaw told the St. Louis Dispatch, when he put his hands in the air and attempted to flee. Several shots hit him as he ran away.
St. Louis County police chief Jon Belmar said Sunday that Brown struggled for the officer’s gun in the patrol car and that one shot was fired from the officer’s gun during the tussle. The officer fired multiple shots at Brown as he fled, Belmar said.
Anger flared the rest of the day after Brown’s death, as protesters screamed obscenities mixed with threats to “kill the police,” and more than 60 area police officers responded to the scene. More shots were reported, though no one was injured. Public Outcry After Police Shooting of Black St. Louis Teenager
Then this happened:
Quote: An uneasy calm settled over Ferguson, Missouri, early Tuesday after a second night of violent clashes between law enforcement and residents protesting the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager, with another demonstration planned for mid-morning.
So far, more than 50 people have been arrested in protests following the death of Michael Brown, 18, in a largely black St. Louis suburb on Saturday after what police officials said was a struggle with a gun in a squad car.
The FBI has opened a civil rights investigation into the racially charged case, and St. Louis County is also investigating the shooting.
Police have not said why Brown was in the police car. At least one shot was fired during the struggle, and then the officer fired more shots before leaving the car, police said.
Chanting "hands up, don’t shoot," protesters overnight challenged police trying to seal off the neighborhood where Brown was shot, a low-income, high-crime area east of downtown Ferguson. Some protesters said they were outraged that Brown appeared to have been shot while holding his hands up in surrender, calling the shooting the latest in a long history of police harassment of area minorities.
"They brought this on themselves," said 25-year-old Adam Burcher of Ferguson, who stood outside the Ferguson Police Department on Monday night with a sign reading "Stop Killing."
Later on Tuesday, a protest is expected outside the St. Louis County prosecutor's office in Clayton, Missouri, and officials are also expected to identify the police officer involved in the shooting. Another protest set in Missouri after riots over teen's killing
Followed by this:
Quote: Violence again erupted in the St. Louis area near the site of the police shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, according to local police, despite calls by U.S. President Barack Obama and activists for a measured response.
Early on Wednesday, a police officer shot and critically wounded a man who drew a handgun near the site of protests over the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown, a St. Louis County Police Department officer said.
Police responded about an hour after midnight to reports of four or five men with shotguns and wearing ski masks. They encountered multiple suspects running, one of whom pulled a gun on an officer, who fired at him, the county officer said. The man was taken to an area hospital.
Shortly after midnight, police fired tear gas into protesters who had confronted a line of officers after a far larger crowd dispersed, St. Louis County Police Department spokesman Brian Schellman said.
A photograph in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch showed a protester wearing a shirt with an American flag printed on it throwing a tear gas container back at the police. There were other media reports of bottles thrown at police.
The incidents followed two nights of violent protests, looting and arrests in Ferguson, the largely black St. Louis suburb where the shooting of Brown took place. Violence erupts again after killing of black Missouri teen
And now to bring you up to date:
Quote:
The Ferguson and St. Louis County police departments, which led the initial response to civil unrest in Ferguson, are both equipped with military equipment donated by the Defense Dept. Ferguson has received two vehicles, a trailer and a generator and St. Louis County has received nine utility trucks and two cargo trailers since 2012.
The equipment was received under the 1033 program which was enacted by Congress in 1992, and expanded in 1997. The program allows police forces to request and receive refurbished military equipment free of charge from the Pentagon. Police departments need only pay for shipping. Ferguson and St. Louis County police received military equipment from Pentagon
Quote: President Barack Obama on Thursday said that police should respect protesters after four nights of racially charged demonstrations in Ferguson, Missouri, over the recent police killing of an unarmed black teenager.
"There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism or looting," Obama said a televised remarks.
"There's also no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protesters or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their first amendment rights," he said, speaking to the press from Edgartown, Massachusetts near where he is vacationing with his family.
After the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown in the St. Louis suburb on Saturday, dozens of protesters have been arrested and the police have used riot gear, tear gas and rubber bullets to break up protests.
There have been peaceful vigils and demonstrations as well as episodes of looting and violence.
Governor Jay Nixon on Thursday also told community members at a church in the St. Louis area that "over the next few hours we are going to be making some shifts so that people will be ... safe." He did not specify what his steps would be made. Obama calls for police to respect protesters in Ferguson, Missouri
Don't forget this one too:
Quote: Two reporters covering the shooting of an unarmed black teen by a white police officer in a St. Louis suburb say they were arrested at a McDonald’s Wednesday evening in the commercial corridor where angry protests have occurred.
Wesley Lowery of The Washington Post and Ryan Reilly of The Huffington Post say they were working in the fast-food restaurant when SWAT officers came in to quickly clear the area. Both quickly tweeted about their arrests, detention and subsequent release without any charges.
Reilly tells KMOX News that officers were trying to clear out the restaurant.
“I was just packing up, and I evidently did not move quickly enough,” he says.
Reilly says an officer banged his head on the restaurant door and sarcastically apologized for it.
“None of them were wearing name badges, I don’t know why,” he says. “Over a dozen times I asked for an identity, I asked for a badge number, and all the officers standing around heard my request and ignored it.”
Reilly said he believes they were released so quickly because they were journalists. He realized during his interview with KMOX News that he was not read his Miranda Rights.
“I wasn’t even Mirandaized,” he says. “I did not even think about that until you just mentioned. I was never given…nothing…wow. I should really know that as a justice reporter. I sort of knew it by heart, but I was never given my rights, or anything like that was mentioned.”
Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson did not immediately return a cellphone message from The Associated Press seeking comment. 2 Reporters Arrested At Ferguson McDonald’s
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