St. Louis, Missouri Vs. The Police: Heaven Or Hell, Duel 1! Let's Rock!

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St. Louis, Missouri Vs. The Police: Heaven or Hell, Duel 1! Let's rock!
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:20:41
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Those two facts have full bearing to the main question:

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Was the kid trying to get the police officer's gun? That is up for debate.

they absolutely do not.
Let me ask you this then:

Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?
Yes.
Then prove it. Next time you are pulled over, take that gun away from the cop and see how well that goes.

If you manage to survive, don't forget to brag about it online.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-21 12:21:47
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Would an innocent person even be DEAD?!?

... yeah, think about it.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:22:00
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Those two facts have full bearing to the main question:

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Was the kid trying to get the police officer's gun? That is up for debate.

they absolutely do not.
Let me ask you this then:

Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?
If they were socialized to distrust cops, yes.
So you are saying that it is perfectly ok and understandable to take a gun away from a cop, even if you are completely innocent and the cop is not coming at you at a threatening way.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:23:16
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Would an innocent person even be DEAD?!?

... yeah, think about it.
So, you are attributing innocence to the ability to live.

So, does that make us all guilty of a crime then?

You are just grasping for straws now....
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-21 12:25:20
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Would an innocent person even be DEAD?!?

... yeah, think about it.
So, you are attributing innocence to the ability to live.

So, does that make us all guilty of a crime then?

You are just grasping for straws now....
You're just approaching Nausi levels of logic...
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-21 12:29:06
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no one is innocent.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-08-21 12:30:31
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »

Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?

...

Then prove it. Next time you are pulled over, take that gun away from the cop and see how well that goes.
Context matters.

Your first question was open to interpretation.
E.g if the cop is attempting to hurt/kill me, yes, that would be an option or at least thought of
E.g. The cop that was a serial rapist, i'm sure the innocent victims would have liked to have disarmed him.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-21 12:39:22
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Siren.Mosin said: »
no one is innocent.
Don't make me slap you!
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:40:29
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Siren.Mosin said: »
no one is innocent.
How do you figure?

But then again, I'm going under the assumption that there wasn't reasonable cause of being stopped in the first place. Yes, police officers can make mistakes, but there has to be some reason for being stopped in the first place.

If I was speeding, then I'm not innocent at that matter. I still would not reach for the gun, and create a situation like what happened with Brown.

But obviously people (stated that they) would go after the gun when stopped by a police officer.

Bahamut.Kara said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »

Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?

...

Then prove it. Next time you are pulled over, take that gun away from the cop and see how well that goes.
Context matters.

Your first question was open to interpretation.
E.g if the cop is attempting to hurt/kill me, yes, that would be an option or at least thought of
E.g. The cop that was a serial rapist, i'm sure the innocent victims would have liked to have disarmed him.
Irrelevant. How many officers have ever intentionally went after a person they deemed to be non-aggressive and not going to injure/harm the officer or another human being.

I'm sure you will pull up something out of your *** to say "well, if you take this situation with this set of circumstances in the middle of the night and so on and so forth..." and try to justify urban myth. I'm even sure you will find something from a third-world country or a country currently in conflict also, but not in the USA, just to "prove" your point.

The point is, police officers in USA do not randomly shoot people just because, regardless of what Hollywood tells you otherwise.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-08-21 12:42:31
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Those two facts have full bearing to the main question:

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Was the kid trying to get the police officer's gun? That is up for debate.

they absolutely do not.
Let me ask you this then:

Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?
If they were socialized to distrust cops, yes.
So you are saying that it is perfectly ok and understandable to take a gun away from a cop, even if you are completely innocent and the cop is not coming at you at a threatening way.
Do you know how to read without projecting a strawman onto everything someone says? I said EXACTLY what I meant. If someone was socialized to distrust cops, it is a choice that can, and has, been made. It's not a smart choice, but it's a choice.

You asked "Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?" and the response is: yes, under the right social conditions, it is possible. Don't *** backpedal and add quantification to your prior question. It makes it a chore to even consider you worth addressing.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-08-21 12:43:17
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Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.

What rock do you live under?
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-21 12:45:39
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
It makes it a chore to even consider you worth addressing.

^^^so much this.^^^
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-21 12:47:00
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.

What rock do you live under?
They've also beat them, tortured them and falsely imprisoned them among other things. Don't worry though if yo're one of the lucky ones that gets exhonerated theres a couple million dollars of taxpayer money waiting for ya.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:49:34
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Those two facts have full bearing to the main question:

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Was the kid trying to get the police officer's gun? That is up for debate.

they absolutely do not.
Let me ask you this then:

Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?
If they were socialized to distrust cops, yes.
So you are saying that it is perfectly ok and understandable to take a gun away from a cop, even if you are completely innocent and the cop is not coming at you at a threatening way.
Do you know how to read without projecting a strawman onto everything someone says? I said EXACTLY what I meant. If someone was socialized to distrust cops, it is a choice that can, and has, been made. It's not a smart choice, but it's a choice.

You asked "Would an innocent person ever even attempt to take a gun away from a cop?" and the response is: yes, under the right social conditions, it is possible. Don't *** backpedal and add quantification to your prior question. It makes it a chore to even consider you worth addressing.
I'm sorry if you used such a broad definition of "socialized."

But you still didn't answer the statement. Instead, you used a stupid excuse for a non-answer. Kindof like Flavin and Mosin.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 12:51:39
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.

What rock do you live under?
So, prove it.

Show us all something (outside of your usual sources, like Huffington Post and The Onion) that states that a person was gunned down in cold blood in the US that did nothing but stood still and allowed the cop to kill him execution-style, and the cop got away with it.

Because that would fit your so-called statement of "many, many officers have killed innocent people in the US."
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2014-08-21 12:53:15
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No, I used a very succinct response that answered exactly what you asked. Reaching for a cop's gun can be rationalized in a variety of situations or worldviews. The answer to your question is yes, despite your attempt to propose a question you wanted a resounding no for.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-21 12:55:09
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
No, I used a very succinct response that answered exactly what you asked. Reaching for a cop's gun can be rationalized in a variety of situations or worldviews. The answer to your question is yes, despite your attempt to propose a question you wanted a resounding no for.

I imagine it's hard to conceptualize someone else's reality when your grip on your own is so loose.
 Fenrir.Squintik
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By Fenrir.Squintik 2014-08-21 12:58:36
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.

What rock do you live under?
So, prove it.

Step 1. Google "us cop kills innocent man"
Step 2. Read articles.
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-21 13:06:04
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.

What rock do you live under?
So, prove it.

Show us all something (outside of your usual sources, like Huffington Post and The Onion) that states that a person was gunned down in cold blood in the US that did nothing but stood still and allowed the cop to kill him execution-style, and the cop got away with it.

Because that would fit your so-called statement of "many, many officers have killed innocent people in the US."
Okay.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-08-21 13:12:12
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Irrelevant. How many officers have ever intentionally went after a person they deemed to be non-aggressive and not going to injure/harm the officer or another human being.

I'm sure you will pull up something out of your *** to say "well, if you take this situation with this set of circumstances in the middle of the night and so on and so forth..." and try to justify urban myth. I'm even sure you will find something from a third-world country or a country currently in conflict also, but not in the USA, just to "prove" your point.

The point is, police officers in USA do not randomly shoot people just because, regardless of what Hollywood tells you otherwise.

Hell, even with the rather stupid criteria of "intentionally went after a person they deemed to be non-aggressive and not going to injure/harm the officer or another human being" here's one.

There are no small number of mistaken identification and address cases, where the police officer opened fire on someone who actually was non-aggressive and not going to injure/harm the officer or another human being.
Here's one from not long ago.

Or hell, that guy with the toy gun in Walmart.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-08-21 13:12:59
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.

What rock do you live under?
So, prove it.

Show us all something (outside of your usual sources, like Huffington Post and The Onion) that states that a person was gunned down in cold blood in the US that did nothing but stood still and allowed the cop to kill him execution-style, and the cop got away with it.

Because that would fit your so-called statement of "many, many officers have killed innocent people in the US."
Please, please, please show me where I've used huffington post or the onion as a source. I would LOVE to see it.

Also, I love your description of innocent now. The person must be standing still, killed, and the officers must have gotten away with it.

I've already provided an example in this thread. The case has not gone to court yet and the video footage has not been released but the man killed in an Ohio wal-mart two weeks ago who was talking on a cell phone while holding an air gun he was going to purchase.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/44156/st-louis-missouri-vs-the-police-heaven-or-hell-due/23#2690767

But lets play this game:
Quote:
Eurie Stamp was in his pajamas, watching a baseball game, when SWAT officers forced a battering ram through his front door and threw a flashbang grenade inside. Stamp, a 68-year-old grandfather of twelve, followed the officers' shouted orders to lie facedown on the floor with his arms above his head. He died in this position, when one of the officers' guns discharged. Stamp wasn't the suspect; the officers were looking for his girlfriend's son on suspicion of selling drugs. The suspect was arrested outside the home minutes before the raid. Even though the actual suspect didn't live in Stamp's home and was already in custody, the SWAT team still decided to carry out the raid. Framingham has since disbanded its SWAT team.

https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing
DA ruled no criminal charges to be filed.
http://beforeitsnews.com/marijuana-debate/2011/03/police-officer-walks-in-massachusetts-drug-raid-death-488094.html
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-08-21 13:15:58
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Hey, with this much backpedaling, KN may actually have been able to run away if he was a slave.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-08-21 13:51:24
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Hey, with this much backpedaling, KN may actually have been able to run away if he was a slave.

Oh my lulz...

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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-21 13:52:56
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
The Onion

The Onion is American's Finest News Source™ and I will not stand by and let you badmouth such a marvelous publication, you cads!
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By fonewear 2014-08-21 13:57:56
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
The Onion

Huff Post is American's Finest News Source™ and I will not stand by and let you badmouth such a marvelous publication, you cads!
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 Fenrir.Squintik
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By Fenrir.Squintik 2014-08-21 13:59:29
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fonewear said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
The Onion

Sesame Street is American's Finest News Source™ and I will not stand by and let you badmouth such a marvelous publication, you cads!
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-21 14:04:31
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Okay, no, seriously. The Onion is so much better than real news, or even blogs disguised as news (Fone...).
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By Fumiku 2014-08-21 14:07:53
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wormfeeder said: »
Cerberus.Detzu said: »
I think we all share the same feelings in front of a reporter being beheaded by terrorists while we can't agree that shooting an unarmed kid 6 times is bad. That is why there is a debate for this and not for the previous.
anyone with half a brain can see that shooting an unarmed person is bad. unless said person is breaking into your house and threatening you and you loved ones with threats of violence or death. I will call the cops after he has been render inert.

Just to point this out, being unarmed doesn't mean you can't kill someone....... Just sayian....
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-21 14:12:41
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Hey, with this much backpedaling, KN may actually have been able to run away if he was a slave.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-21 14:28:02
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Many, many officers have killed "innocent" people in the US.

What rock do you live under?
So, prove it.

Show us all something (outside of your usual sources, like Huffington Post and The Onion) that states that a person was gunned down in cold blood in the US that did nothing but stood still and allowed the cop to kill him execution-style, and the cop got away with it.

Because that would fit your so-called statement of "many, many officers have killed innocent people in the US."
Please, please, please show me where I've used huffington post or the onion as a source. I would LOVE to see it.

Also, I love your description of innocent now. The person must be standing still, killed, and the officers must have gotten away with it.

I've already provided an example in this thread. The case has not gone to court yet and the video footage has not been released but the man killed in an Ohio wal-mart two weeks ago who was talking on a cell phone while holding an air gun he was going to purchase.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/44156/st-louis-missouri-vs-the-police-heaven-or-hell-due/23#2690767

But lets play this game:
Quote:
Eurie Stamp was in his pajamas, watching a baseball game, when SWAT officers forced a battering ram through his front door and threw a flashbang grenade inside. Stamp, a 68-year-old grandfather of twelve, followed the officers' shouted orders to lie facedown on the floor with his arms above his head. He died in this position, when one of the officers' guns discharged. Stamp wasn't the suspect; the officers were looking for his girlfriend's son on suspicion of selling drugs. The suspect was arrested outside the home minutes before the raid. Even though the actual suspect didn't live in Stamp's home and was already in custody, the SWAT team still decided to carry out the raid. Framingham has since disbanded its SWAT team.

https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing
DA ruled no criminal charges to be filed.
http://beforeitsnews.com/marijuana-debate/2011/03/police-officer-walks-in-massachusetts-drug-raid-death-488094.html
Your previous example only reported one side of the story, and to hell with what really happened (only 2 people know what really happened, and one of them is dead). So, you automatically assumed that he was shot in cold blood because it fits your needs?

Why not add racism to it, since the guy who was shot was also black. That would create 15 days of news broadcasts and all the looting the media needs.

As for your second example, did you not see that the gun discharged, not the guy was shot? If you are going to make an example of every mistake everyone has ever made, as last I saw, SWAT was run by humans who make mistakes, then why not make an example out of you? Why don't you broadcast all the mistakes you ever made in your life, or are you going to say you never made a mistake ever?

But again, it suits your need, and you will be selective in your reading as long as it suits your agenda.

Congratulations, you are just as delusional as Pleebo.
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