Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 12:34:02
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They can..walk? If it's not far?
 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 12:34:07
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Good job guys, I'm done talking in circles with you all.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-04 12:35:16
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Well, if we're talking about the current state of abstinence education, then I can finally see where you're coming from. Sure I support the teaching that abstinence is your safest bet, but I don't agree with how it's being presented in connection with other topics.

It's not even just the state of current abstinence education. There is no impact to teaching kids about safe sex if you deny them access to the tools to practice it. Kids make poor decisions, they don't always listen to their parents, and if they're taught about safe sex but don't have condoms or hormonal contraception available, WHEN they have sex, they have a dramatically higher chance of contracting an STD or getting pregnant.

What sense is there in even telling them if you don't give them the tools? None, which is why everyone balks at abstinence even being discussed.

You have a preconceived notion here that you just can't get over. Nobody here is saying to deny them the education and the tools, so it's pointless to keep bringing up.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-04 12:35:57
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Good job guys, I'm done talking in circles with you all.

You saying the same thing over and over without addressing the holes everyone pokes in it isn't talking in circles, but enjoy your day.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-04 12:36:38
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
So how exactly are they getting to the doctor without their parents taking them?
Quote:
School-based health clinics in at least 13 Seattle-area public high schools and middle schools offer long-acting reversible contraceptives (LARCs), including IUDs and hormonal implants, to students in sixth-grade and above at no cost, according to Washington State officials.

It is probably not an IUD but an arm implant which is injected via a large guage needle. Takes less than 5 minutes.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-04 12:36:41
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Good job guys, I'm done talking in circles with you all.

Yeah, I'm getting to that point too. Just when we're getting somewhere, someone brings up extremes and/or things that nobody is even arguing.

Have fun guys, I'm going to enjoy the 4th.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-04 12:38:34
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Well, if we're talking about the current state of abstinence education, then I can finally see where you're coming from. Sure I support the teaching that abstinence is your safest bet, but I don't agree with how it's being presented in connection with other topics.

It's not even just the state of current abstinence education. There is no impact to teaching kids about safe sex if you deny them access to the tools to practice it. Kids make poor decisions, they don't always listen to their parents, and if they're taught about safe sex but don't have condoms or hormonal contraception available, WHEN they have sex, they have a dramatically higher chance of contracting an STD or getting pregnant.

What sense is there in even telling them if you don't give them the tools? None, which is why everyone balks at abstinence even being discussed.

You have a preconceived notion here that you just can't get over. Nobody here is saying to deny them the education and the tools, so it's pointless to keep bringing up.

If that's not the point, what the hell are we talking about?

No, there is outrage over kids being allowed to make the decision to acquire the tools without parental consent. So, either it's a simple case of parental control freak-out-ism or you don't want teens to have access.

Which is it? Do you have a problem with not being the boss or with teens having access to contraception?
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 12:41:45
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
They can..walk? If it's not far?

You let your 12 year old walk where ever she wants? No wonder kids are getting pregnant at that age. Don't call it bad parenting though!

Odin.Jassik said: »
You saying the same thing over and over without addressing the holes everyone pokes in it isn't talking in circles, but enjoy your day.

You don't poke holes, you go to any extreme possible to take focus off the point.

Bahamut.Kara said: »
It is probably not an IUD but an arm implant which is injected via a large guage needle. Takes less than 5 minutes.

Your right, its probably not an IUD even though that's exactly what it says.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Good job guys, I'm done talking in circles with you all.

Yeah, I'm getting to that point too. Just when we're getting somewhere, someone brings up extremes and/or things that nobody is even arguing.

Have fun guys, I'm going to enjoy the 4th.

Now i'm done! Later rav.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 12:45:27
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Why do people who say they're done never follow through with their statement?
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-04 12:46:17
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
It is probably not an IUD but an arm implant which is injected via a large guage needle. Takes less than 5 minutes.

Your right, its probably not an IUD even though that's exactly what it says.
The article is all kinds of misleading.

But hey, I'm sure that when the person they interviewed never mentioned IUD's that's exactly what they meant. /sarcasm

But you're welcome for the answer I provided. They would not be leaving school grounds, so don't worry about them carting your kids off!
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-07-04 12:47:31
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Nobody here is saying to deny them the education and the tools, so it's pointless to keep bringing up.
It's the position he's been dancing around for pages. The fun is in trying to get it out ^^
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-07-04 12:49:27
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Kid is having safe sex? Bad parenting!

Kid gets pregnant because they've been denied the tools to protect themselves? Good parenting...?
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2015-07-04 13:09:35
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Sure preaching abstinence will make sure those kids will never have sex. Talk about naivety.

You could be the best parent in the world but that doesn't mean that when your teen goes hormone-crazy you'll be able to keep his/her junk in check.
Why not?
Because literally locking your child up is the only way you can actually stop them from doing what they want. Which is shitty parenting and possibly ilegal.

Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You teach em about sex, you teach em about std, teach em about pregnancy and birth control. Then, it's all in their hands(keke). Your little girl isn't coming home saying "hey daddy can you buy me some birth control cause there's this super hot guy and.."
This is the reason sex education was pushed onto schools. How did they do that? They said it would help teens to not get pregnant since they would be more informed.

Then it back fired and now preteens are just as informed as teens and everyone is getting pregnant so hey!
Teen pregnancy is actually the lowest it's been since the 90's. AT the very least, anyway. I suspect the 70s and 80s was even higher. So uhh... Totally isn't working. Yup.
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-04 13:10:14
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You have a preconceived notion here that you just can't get over. Nobody here is saying to deny them the education and the tools, so it's pointless to keep bringing up.
Yet that's exactly what is being proposed.
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-04 13:14:07
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Kid is having safe sex? Bad parenting!

Kid gets pregnant because they've been denied the tools to protect themselves? Good parenting...?
It's about the almighty god fearing control factor.

Personal responsibility for teenagers be damned! (until they pop out a kid, then you better tie them bootstraps!)
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-04 13:16:35
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I was trying to find an article about the 9 year old I remember being tried as an adult, but came across this first.

Six Years After Being Charged with Murder at Age 11, Jordan Brown May Get New Trial
June 3, 2015 said:
Jordan Brown was 11 when he was arrested in the middle of the night for murdering his father's fiancée and her unborn child.

Now, six years later, the 17-year-old, who has always declared his innocence, might get a new trial.

Common Pleas Judge Dominick Motto, ruled almost a year after Jordan was charged that his refusal to take responsibility for the crime hurt his chances for rehabilitation in the juvenile justice system. Therefore, he would stand trial as an adult, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

On Feb. 20, 2009, his soon to be stepmom, Kenzie Houk, 26, was shot and died in their farmhouse in Wampum, Pennsylvania. She was eight months pregnant. Jordan than allegedly walked to the school bus with the victim's daughter.

Houk's unborn son, Christopher A. Houk-Brown Jr., died as well.

According to The Associated Press, prosecutors say that Jordan approached Kenzie with his youth-model 20-gauge shotgun hidden under a blanket and then shot her in the back of the head as she lay in bed.

"The offense was an execution-style killing of a defenseless pregnant young mother," Motto wrote, according to the outlet.

After he was charged as an adult with two counts of first-degree murder, his case was moved to juvenile court. In May 2013, the Superior Court overturned his conviction on the grounds that "the juvenile court committed a palpable abuse of discretion in rendering a ruling that is plainly contrary to the evidence."

The now straight A-student who plays basketball and loves to read, attends George Junior Republic, a residential treatment center for at risk youth in Grove City, Pennsylvania.

He will remain in detention until he is 21.

One of Jordan's two lawyers, Steven Colafella, tells PEOPLE that they will never stop fighting to get Jordan released.

After the conviction was overturned, Colafella and attorney Dennis Elisco were finally able to go before Judge Hodge on Thursday to argue for a new trial or acquittal.

"We went back to the trial judge and told him why we think he is wrong that Jordan is guilty," Colafella tells PEOPLE. "We not only argued for a new trial, we argued that the case should be dismissed."

But Colafella insists there are numerous reasons why the case should be thrown out, but he brought up a few of those reasons to PEOPLE.

Jordan Brown was 11 when he was arrested in the middle of the night for murdering his father's fiancée and her unborn child.

Now, six years later, the 17-year-old, who has always declared his innocence, might get a new trial.

Common Pleas Judge Dominick Motto, ruled almost a year after Jordan was charged that his refusal to take responsibility for the crime hurt his chances for rehabilitation in the juvenile justice system. Therefore, he would stand trial as an adult, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

On Feb. 20, 2009, his soon to be stepmom, Kenzie Houk, 26, was shot and died in their farmhouse in Wampum, Pennsylvania. She was eight months pregnant. Jordan than allegedly walked to the school bus with the victim's daughter.

Houk's unborn son, Christopher A. Houk-Brown Jr., died as well.

According to The Associated Press, prosecutors say that Jordan approached Kenzie with his youth-model 20-gauge shotgun hidden under a blanket and then shot her in the back of the head as she lay in bed.

"The offense was an execution-style killing of a defenseless pregnant young mother," Motto wrote, according to the outlet.

After he was charged as an adult with two counts of first-degree murder, his case was moved to juvenile court. In May 2013, the Superior Court overturned his conviction on the grounds that "the juvenile court committed a palpable abuse of discretion in rendering a ruling that is plainly contrary to the evidence."

The now straight A-student who plays basketball and loves to read, attends George Junior Republic, a residential treatment center for at risk youth in Grove City, Pennsylvania.

He will remain in detention until he is 21.

One of Jordan's two lawyers, Steven Colafella, tells PEOPLE that they will never stop fighting to get Jordan released.

After the conviction was overturned, Colafella and attorney Dennis Elisco were finally able to go before Judge Hodge on Thursday to argue for a new trial or acquittal.

"We went back to the trial judge and told him why we think he is wrong that Jordan is guilty," Colafella tells PEOPLE. "We not only argued for a new trial, we argued that the case should be dismissed."

But Colafella insists there are numerous reasons why the case should be thrown out, but he brought up a few of those reasons to PEOPLE.

No One Else
A huge part of the Jordan Brown case is a point that Judge Hodge made in April 2012, according to Colafella.

"He implied that Jordan did it because who else could have. He said that no one else had an opportunity to come into the home and commit these murders between the time Jordan left for school and the time the body was discovered 45 minutes later," Colafella says. "What kind of reasoning is that?"

Hodge says that the only footprints observed in the snow were leading from the area where the kids left the house in the morning to where they caught the bus.

But yet, as Colafella points out, they failed to look at the other three entrances to the house. "It doesn't paint a full picture because the investigators never checked the other areas."

The Houk family say that Jordan was spoiled by his father and jealous of Kenzie and her unborn child, the Associated Press reports. They say the baby was going to be given Jordan's bedroom.

The Shotgun
Prosecutors say the weapon used to kill Kenzie was a 20-gauge shotgun.

"There are an abundance of facts that show that this wasn't the weapon used," Colafella says. "They found what they characterize as a pristine shell in the woods along the path Jordan would have traveled to get to the school bus."

It was buried underneath frozen leaves and there were numerous other shells nearby.

Forensic pathologists also said that this was a near-contact gunshot wound.

"There would have been some blow-back, but yet no biological tissue, blood or fingerprints were found on the gun," he says. "They haven't been able to prove to this day that this was definitely the gun that was used."

The other key point that Colafella has made many times, including on Thursday, is that only two particles of gunshot residue were found on Jordan. One particle was found on his shirt and the other on his pants.

Jordan was an avid shooter and just a week before the murder he was at an indoor turkey shoot with his dad. The morning Kenzie died, Jordan was wearing the same jacket he wore for that shoot.

"You would have expected considerably more gun residue on his clothing if he had fired that gun in a room in a house at close range," he says.

It's a point that the Superior Court completely disregarded as well.

Jordan's father, Chris Brown, had left for work and Kenzie's two daughters, ages 7 and 4, were the only others in the house when she was shot, prosecutors say, according to WTAE.

A Father's Hope
Every single time Jordan's father, Chris, goes to court, he doesn't get his hopes up.

"This has been a long journey," Colafella says. "But the Brown family still stays very optimistic. We have been in court so many times and still haven't gotten the relief we need."

But they're not giving up.

"We are still fighting the same fight and arguing the same facts," he says.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania forgot to file a brief yesterday, and Colafella believes they will within the next week or two. After that, Colafella and fellow attorney Elisco have two weeks to respond.

"We are not commenting on this matter at this time," spokeswoman Carolyn Myers at the Pennsylvania Office of the Attorney General tells PEOPLE.

Judge Hodge, who is reviewing the trial transcript, will then make his decision if there will be a new trial.
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By Terraka 2015-07-04 13:40:08
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Take abstinence and helicoptering off the table as your primary solution and you won't be so ripe for mockery.

Abstinence for 12-13-14 year olds should not be ripe for mockery, Neither should being a good parent.

First off let me say this, I hope to God, or whatever Holy power is in the sky that my children won't even be thinking about sex at 12 or 13 years old. Secondly, personally, I don't like the teaching of abstinence. I'd rather teach my teens about how to have SAFE SEX, because we all know teenagers are going to have sex regardless of what parents or instructors tell them.

My mom never taught me about sex, at least not in my teenage years. I had that "puberty" talk in 5th grade and I took every parenting class and health class my high school had to offer. So I basically learned on my own. My high school had a mandatory health class that was required to graduate and it taught students about safe sex and STD's. I'd rather have my kids learn about STD's, condoms and birth control and make their own educated decisions on whether or not they want to have sex.

It's sad that parents are going to have to start talking to their kids at 10 or 11 years old about sex: vaginal, anal or oral.

Perhaps, if parents actually interacted with their kids instead of letting TV or the internet be babysitters; maybe underage sex and teenage pregnancies will slowly decline.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-04 13:49:17
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Anecdotally, teen pregnancy and STD contraction has decreased as the internet and absentee parenting have increased. That would seem to suggest that parents are less effective than unfettered knowledge.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-07-04 14:02:41
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Odin.Jassik said: »
.... and if they're taught about safe sex but don't have condoms or hormonal contraception available, WHEN they have sex, they have a dramatically higher chance of contracting an STD or getting pregnant....
Hormonal contraceptives do not prevent STDs.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-04 14:16:05
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
.... and if they're taught about safe sex but don't have condoms and hormonal contraception available, WHEN they have sex, they have a dramatically higher chance of contracting an STD or getting pregnant....
Hormonal contraceptives do not prevent STDs.

Thank you for correcting my careless misuse of conjunctions.
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 Phoenix.Xantavia
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By Phoenix.Xantavia 2015-07-04 14:25:00
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Jetackuu said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Kid is having safe sex? Bad parenting!

Kid gets pregnant because they've been denied the tools to protect themselves? Good parenting...?
It's about the almighty god fearing control factor.

Personal responsibility for teenagers be damned! (until they pop out a kid, then you better tie them bootstraps!)
Hey now, it totally worked out for Sarah Palin and her kid. No way anybody in her family had a child outside of wedlock as a minor.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-07-04 17:15:11
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Those areas of the brain don't fully develop until the mid-20's. A legal adult isn't prepared to fully grasp the potential consequences of their behavior.

True, but they're far better off than a 12-year-old and are much better equipped to deal with any consequences.
Actually untrue.

Younger teenagers (middle school through freshmen or sophomore, so about 12-15) are very vigilant of their own safety. It's probably a direct result of severe insecurity relating to puberty, but whatever the reason, they tend to make better sexual choices.

Older teenagers, 16-19 or so (yes, I'm very much including people over the age of majority), are the ones who engage in risky behavior for really bad reasons.

And, in my experience, people in their early 20s aren't a whole lot better. Most of them got half-assed sex ed, if any at all (I remember back in 2000 when I started college, I was forced to attend a class that glossed over some of this stuff, no clue if that still happens today), and our culture inundates with the notion that if you haven't lost your virginity before the end of your first semester, you may as well kill yourself.

I don't even want to think about the really risky ***I did from 16 to 21 as a direct consequence of never having a sex ed class, much less one that legitimately addressed issues of WHY or WHY NOT to have sex.

Does any sex ed program approach that? Because the how of putting on a condom or taking a pill is something that can be literally covered in 10 minutes, tops, including a demonstration of how big a condom really is and how fragile they are when too old or exposed to oil-based lubricants. The why of having sex is the really important one, and "because we're in love" should be really way down the list because love doesn't require ***, but the average high schooler thinks that puppy love and lust are going to last forever.

By all means, teach abstinence, but do so by teaching what sex is, what results from sex, and I don't mean just pregnancy and infection, and why people choose to have sex.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-07-04 17:22:11
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Anecdotally, teen pregnancy and STD contraction has decreased as the internet and absentee parenting have increased. That would seem to suggest that parents are less effective than unfettered knowledge.
Unfettered knowledge may not be the real culprit. Teens (and adults) have found an easier way of getting off: sexting, Snapchat, Chatroulette, etc.

Hey, guess what they're not learning while masturbating on camera? That they may be recorded and memorialized forever. Oh, and they're producing child pornography and that knock at the door is the FBI. Teaching kids (and adults, for that matter) how to act responsibly in a sexual and non-sexual manner over the internet is another aspect of sex education that is lost when we just tell people, "Don't have sex, full stop."

Though, just to back up your anecdote, Millennials in their 20s have had, on average, fewer sexual partners than GenX or Boomers did by the same age. The wide distribution of pornography with its unreachable idealization of sex and human bodies coupled with the ease of masturbation seems to be a major contributor.
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 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-07-04 21:55:30
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Terraka said: »
At 12-13? You'd be surprised. It's not as uncommon as you think, especially considering that most girls would've had reached menarche by than.
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 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-07-04 22:05:18
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
By all means, teach abstinence, but do so by teaching what sex is, what results from sex, and I don't mean just pregnancy and infection, and why people choose to have sex.
Since that's the main point of your post, care to elaborate on how sex ed could be enhanced so that the targeted groups would get real benefit from it?
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-07-04 23:47:54
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Quote:
Forget Fort Knox or the Federal Reserve. Texas has decided to start keeping its gold holdings within in its own borders. But what makes sense politically in such a sovereignty-loving place is creating a logistical conundrum.

Texas is the only state that owns an actual stockpile of gold, according to public sector and financial industry experts — not just gold futures or investment positions, but approximately 5,600 gold bars worth around $650 million. The holdings, stored at a New York bank, for some harken back to century-old fears about the security of currency not backed by shiny bullion.

The Legislature's decision this summer to bring its gold cache home was hailed by many conservatives, and even some on the far left, who are suspicious of national government.

"There will always be the exact same amount of gold in there as the amount that was put in," no matter what happens to the financial system, said Republican state Rep. Rep. Giovanni Capriglione, a former tea party organizer from the Dallas suburbs who authored the gold bill.

But for the Texas comptroller's office, which has to implement the policy, the catch is that the new Texas Bullion Depository exists in name but not reality.

The law doesn't say where the depository would be or how it should be built or secured. No funding was provided for those purposes or for leasing space elsewhere. Further complicating matters is a provision allowing ordinary people to check their own gold or silver bullion into the facility.

"We are honestly at the phase where the questions we are answering are creating more questions that we have to answer," said Chris Bryan, a comptroller's office spokesman.

Charged with figuring everything out is a four-member task force within the comptroller's office, which recently dispatched an official to a precious metals conference to study up.

One immediate concern is the possible cost. When Fort Knox was completed in 1936 it cost $560,000 — or roughly $9.2 million in today's dollars. When Capriglione first introduced his bill in 2013 it had an estimated cost of $23 million.

But Capriglione now thinks private companies would bid to create a depository in exchange for charging storage and service fees.

The plan has kicked up chatter outside of Texas that it's a step toward secession, an idea raised now and then on the state's farthest political fringe.

"Just moving it would be pretty expensive and, unless Texas is anticipating withdrawing from the union, which I suspect is some peoples' want, I don't see what advantage it is...," said Edwin Truman, a senior fellow at the Washington-based Peterson Institute for International Economics who has written about gold and monetary policy. "What are you getting for what you're paying for?"

But Capriglione says he's just convinced that gold is safer, especially close at hand.

After the bill sailed through the Legislature, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott signed it and tweeted: "California may be the golden state, but Texans deserve to keep their gold in-state!"

Texas' state-owned gold is held by the University of Texas Investment Management Company, the nation's second largest academic endowment behind Harvard. It began gradually amassing gold futures in 2009 as a hedge against currency weakness in the recession. It eventually transitioned to physical bullion, and by 2011 had $1 billion worth.

The price of gold has since mostly slumped amid a soaring stock market. Today, the fund's gold bars represent about 2.5 percent of its $25.4 billion in holdings, said Chief Executive Officer Bruce Zimmerman.

Asked about the new depository, Zimmerman said, "We don't do politics. We're just investors."

The Fed declined comment on the new Texas depository, as did HSBC bank, which currently stores the gold bars in an underground vault in Manhattan.

Stacked together, the state's gold occupies about 20 square feet. It's unclear whether repatriating it could be done with an electronic transfer or would require a fleet of planes or armored cars.

One possible effect of the new depository might be more attention to the idea of returning to the gold standard, long a cause of former Texas Rep. Ron Paul. The Federal Reserve was founded more than a century ago so that the value of the U.S. dollar no longer had to be anchored to gold, and Richard Nixon formally scrapped the gold standard in 1971.

"I think Texas is once again showing they're ahead of the curve," said James Rickards, author of the 2014 book "The Death of Money: The Coming Collapse of the International Monetary System." ''They're not waiting for the disaster, but preparing for it."
Texas wants its gold back inside the state's borders
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By fonewear 2015-07-05 08:09:01
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I'd like our economy to resemble Fallout I have tons of bottle caps already !
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-05 17:34:32
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Greece referendum ended with "no" winning(about 60%). They refuse the proposal of creditors.

They might leave € at this point I think.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-07-05 17:36:22
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Greece referendum ended with "no" winning(about 60%). They refuse the proposal of creditors.

They might leave € at this point I think.

All eyes will be on the womens world cup final tonight.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-05 17:45:15
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Greece referendum ended with "no" winning(about 60%). They refuse the proposal of creditors.

They might leave € at this point I think.

If they think austerity has been rough, wait till aspirin costs 45 bucks a bottle. They're in for a pretty hard next few decades.
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