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Random Politics & Religion #00
By Enuyasha 2014-08-04 13:01:57
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again. Of course he doesn't.
He is the President of the United States! He has no control over anything, unless it benefits him politically. Then it is all him and nobody else helped until it's unpopular again. The Secret Service that sorta plans all the security stuff concerning politicians and the president...sorta control where the motorcade goes. Yknow, without The President being completely informed on the various routes and backup routes that he could possibly be going.
But yea, Obama controls the weather too. *** him and this horrible heat he's plaguing south eastern Louisiana with :(
I CLAIM THIS PAGE IN THE NAME OF
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-04 13:04:07
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again. Of course he doesn't.
He is the President of the United States! He has no control over anything, unless it benefits him politically. Then it is all him and nobody else helped until it's unpopular again. The Secret Service that sorta plans all the security stuff concerning politicians and the president...sorta control where the motorcade goes. Yknow, without The President being completely informed on the various routes and backup routes that he could possibly be going.
But yea, Obama controls the weather too. *** him and this horrible heat he's plaguing south eastern Louisiana with :( Wait, so he doesn't decide to go to Los Angeles in the first place?
Man, if I was President, I wouldn't let people tell me what to do. But I guess that's because I still have a spine.
By Enuyasha 2014-08-04 13:09:15
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again. Of course he doesn't.
He is the President of the United States! He has no control over anything, unless it benefits him politically. Then it is all him and nobody else helped until it's unpopular again. The Secret Service that sorta plans all the security stuff concerning politicians and the president...sorta control where the motorcade goes. Yknow, without The President being completely informed on the various routes and backup routes that he could possibly be going.
But yea, Obama controls the weather too. *** him and this horrible heat he's plaguing south eastern Louisiana with :( Wait, so he doesn't decide to go to Los Angeles in the first place?
Man, if I was President, I wouldn't let people tell me what to do. But I guess that's because I still have a spine. did you just insert a completely irrelevant argument into my statement? Yup, you did.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-04 13:09:47
There's a subset of the population that is completely irrational and cannot be reasoned with. No amount of playing nicey-nicey will do anything to appeal to people who are dead-set on disagreeing no matter what. Thanks guys. I wasn't expecting such a perfect exemplification of this.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-04 13:15:42
Look King ans Nausi...
Yes, Obama does pick the city he goes to. Yes, he probably could go over the route with the secret service team that plans the route. Does he? Possibly.. I'd imagine it's at least sent to him in a breif.
Could anyone foresee that at the exact moment they planned to cross the street that a pregnant woman would be looking to cross the street to get to the hospital? No. Will they plan for something like that for the next time, how to react? I would hope so.
You guys try to make it seem like Nik was in the limo and he specifically saw the pregnant woman sitting there and was informed and then told the motorcade to slow down so she had to wait even longer.
As far as I'm aware the woman is fine and so is the baby right? What's the issue here other than people looking pretty desperate to lay some kind of blame, no, any kind of blame for anythign at Obama's feet.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-04 13:26:45
The point that certain apologists made was that Obama had no control over the route and city that he was supposed to visit.
The whole issue over the pregnant lady doesn't matter, it was that either A) the apologists are correct, and Obama is too incompetent to even decide what to do and where to do it, or B) the apologists are incorrect in their assertion that Obama has no control over his own motorcade route.
Personally, I would rather agree with the apologists and say that Obama is too incompetent, but blameless for the lady having to wait for the President to pass for over an hour to go to the hospital across the street while in labor.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-08-04 13:27:58
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again.
Do you think he's involved in the specifics of trivial things like a motorcade route? By that logic, Boehner is responsible for running out of toilet paper in the capital.
Jeez you guys will do anything to carry his water for him. He may not have directly participated in this particular conversation, but he has direct control of the process by either approving policies regarding his motorcade OR appointing people who do it for him.
Either way, he's the one calling the shots, setting the policies, or hiring the people that screw up. The buck stops at one place and one place only.
By Enuyasha 2014-08-04 13:32:02
The point that certain apologists made was that Obama had no control over the route and city that he was supposed to visit.
The whole issue over the pregnant lady doesn't matter, it was that either A) the apologists are correct, and Obama is too incompetent to even decide what to do and where to do it, or B) the apologists are incorrect in their assertion that Obama has no control over his ownpreplanned motorcade route.
Personally, I would rather agree with the apologists and say that Obama is too incompetent, but blameless for the lady having to wait for the President to pass for over an hour to go to the hospital across the street while in labor. fixed in its entirety. So let me ask you something, do you have control over the flight route of your airliner, train, or any other form of pre-routed public transit? The president is pretty much getting a ride to where he wants to go that is completely at the mercy of his security detail.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-08-04 13:32:48
I blame the dave matthews band...
taking a dump to the next level
the tour bus driver emptied the tour bus' septic take while driving over a bridge in chicago and dave matthews popularity fell just as hard and fast....
so the thinking goes.... if obama was guilty of something just as heinous his popularity would also fall just as fast...
there are several problems with this theory, one - obama's limo doesn't have a crapper, two- the dave matthews band sucks and three obama's car could have run over the pregnant woman and nobody would have cared.
biden has ran over eight people and nobody cares...
I take that back, nausi probably cares.
but it's still dave matthews fault!
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-08-04 13:33:57
"Nausi cares."
Souds like a good slogan for politics.
By Enuyasha 2014-08-04 13:37:50
Do you think he's involved in the specifics of trivial things like a motorcade route? By that logic, Boehner is responsible for running out of toilet paper in the capital.[/quote]
Jeez you guys will do anything to carry his water for him. He may not have directly participated in this particular conversation, but he has direct control of the process by either approving policies regarding his motorcade OR appointing people who do it for him.
Either way, he's the one calling the shots, setting the policies, or hiring the people that screw up. The buck stops at one place and one place only.[/quote]
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again.
Do you think he's involved in the specifics of trivial things like a motorcade route? By that logic, Boehner is responsible for running out of toilet paper in the capital.
Jeez you guys will do anything to carry his water for him. He may not have directly participated in this particular conversation, but he has direct control of the process by either approving policies regarding his motorcade OR appointing people who do it for him.
Either way, he's the one calling the shots, setting the policies, or hiring the people that screw up. The buck stops at one place and one place only.
Technically speaking, The Secret Service hires its own employees. And, The Secret Service may only brief the president in the procedures, but he does not approve or disapprove of the security measures that are in place for his own protection.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-04 13:38:26
So let me ask you something, do you have control over the flight route of your airliner, train, or any other form of pre-routed public transit? I have control over where I go. If I want to go to NYC, I go to NYC.
But your example fails because it is a known route.
The President doesn't have a known route. Saying that he has no control over what he does and where he goes just hurts your overall argument for the President.
So, please keep saying that.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-08-04 13:41:52
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again.
Do you think he's involved in the specifics of trivial things like a motorcade route? By that logic, Boehner is responsible for running out of toilet paper in the capital.
Jeez you guys will do anything to carry his water for him. He may not have directly participated in this particular conversation, but he has direct control of the process by either approving policies regarding his motorcade OR appointing people who do it for him.
Either way, he's the one calling the shots, setting the policies, or hiring the people that screw up. The buck stops at one place and one place only.
Technically speaking, The Secret Service hires its own employees. And, The Secret Service may only brief the president in the procedures, but he does not approve or disapprove of the security measures that are in place for his own protection.
Technically speaking the president appoints someone to head the department.
See?
Lakshmi.Flavin
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Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-04 13:42:18
The point that certain apologists made was that Obama had no control over the route and city that he was supposed to visit.
The whole issue over the pregnant lady doesn't matter, it was that either A) the apologists are correct, and Obama is too incompetent to even decide what to do and where to do it, or B) the apologists are incorrect in their assertion that Obama has no control over his own motorcade route.
Personally, I would rather agree with the apologists and say that Obama is too incompetent, but blameless for the lady having to wait for the President to pass for over an hour to go to the hospital across the street while in labor. The whole point is that it's a non-issue. Whether he knew nothing or had mapped out the whole route himself by hand there's no way you can predict something like that would happen.
Whether people try to claim he had no control over the route or whatever... it doesn't matter.
Also, your entire premise for this argument is way off base. Just because you delegate cenrtain parts of your schedule to other people does not make you incompetant. It's done regularly and by many diffent types of people. That's why there are many different departments and management over multiple teams to take a more focused view on certain things so others can focus on something more important.
You're reaching with just about every assumption you're making and then trying to falsely attribute traits.
By Enuyasha 2014-08-04 13:43:34
So let me ask you something, do you have control over the flight route of your airliner, train, or any other form of pre-routed public transit? I have control over where I go. If I want to go to NYC, I go to NYC.
But your example fails because it is a known route.
The President doesn't have a known route. Saying that he has no control over what he does and where he goes just hurts your overall argument for the President.
So, please keep saying that. The President has a security detail that uses one KNOWN route and many classified detour routes as backups.
The President has ultimate control in one aspect: where he goes in the end destination. The Other things, are carefully planned out by the Secret Service protection detail. It's really that simple.
Also, you as a passenger on public transit does not constitute you being able to CONTROL your route. You may know where you are eventually going, but if you arent directly flying the plane you dont know precisely about your route (except maybe a train, since a train can only really go along the tracks).
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again.
Do you think he's involved in the specifics of trivial things like a motorcade route? By that logic, Boehner is responsible for running out of toilet paper in the capital.
Jeez you guys will do anything to carry his water for him. He may not have directly participated in this particular conversation, but he has direct control of the process by either approving policies regarding his motorcade OR appointing people who do it for him.
Either way, he's the one calling the shots, setting the policies, or hiring the people that screw up. The buck stops at one place and one place only.
Technically speaking, The Secret Service hires its own employees. And, The Secret Service may only brief the president in the procedures, but he does not approve or disapprove of the security measures that are in place for his own protection.
Technically speaking the president appoints someone to head the department.
See?
and Technically speaking that person uses their judgement to hire agents. Obama does not directly control this process. You can allude to indirect control but that would be assuming (as is popular among your ilk) that the officials that are appointed into offices are Obamas puppets through and through. Which, is a large illogical leap.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-04 13:44:11
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again.
Do you think he's involved in the specifics of trivial things like a motorcade route? By that logic, Boehner is responsible for running out of toilet paper in the capital.
Jeez you guys will do anything to carry his water for him. He may not have directly participated in this particular conversation, but he has direct control of the process by either approving policies regarding his motorcade OR appointing people who do it for him.
Either way, he's the one calling the shots, setting the policies, or hiring the people that screw up. The buck stops at one place and one place only. So what are you expecting to peg on him for this? Impeach the president because his motorcade provided a minor inconvenience to some people!!!
god...
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-08-04 13:46:36
Technically speaking the president appoints someone to head the department.
See?
NOW it all makes sense!
It was a woman driver!!!!
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-08-04 13:48:23
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again.
Do you think he's involved in the specifics of trivial things like a motorcade route? By that logic, Boehner is responsible for running out of toilet paper in the capital.
Jeez you guys will do anything to carry his water for him. He may not have directly participated in this particular conversation, but he has direct control of the process by either approving policies regarding his motorcade OR appointing people who do it for him.
Either way, he's the one calling the shots, setting the policies, or hiring the people that screw up. The buck stops at one place and one place only. So what are you expecting to peg on him for this? Impeach the president because his motorcade provided a minor inconvenience to some people!!!
god...
To the extent I initially brought it up, it was for the humor of it. I said it on the last page that on a scale of 1-10 it was a 1. Pleebo was/is the one who brought it up two pages ago after it had been extinguished for however long. Perhaps I should just leave Pleebo to enjoy his hater-ade by himself, but this is P&R and we have nothing to loose by continuing to beat a dead horse.
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By Asura.Calatilla 2014-08-04 13:48:56
Is it wise to post the identity of your secret service staff? I mean, its not very secret is it.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-04 13:51:34
So let me ask you something, do you have control over the flight route of your airliner, train, or any other form of pre-routed public transit? I have control over where I go. If I want to go to NYC, I go to NYC.
But your example fails because it is a known route.
The President doesn't have a known route. Saying that he has no control over what he does and where he goes just hurts your overall argument for the President.
So, please keep saying that. You have control over your final destination but not always the route you take to get there.
If the president tells his lackeys to get him to a specific location... and they are specifically tasked with this process and hired for this purpose would you not defer to their judgement? Especially if you are not extremely familiar with the area? The safety risks? working with the local governemnt police to schedule it and work around whatever needs to be done?
Cmon... you guys are really just grasping at straws now and looking for anything you can to dump on him lol...
[+]
By Enuyasha 2014-08-04 13:53:27
Is it wise to post the identity of your secret service staff? I mean, its not very secret is it. There are protocols to it im sure, after all: we seem to just let people know who our CIA and FBI agents are with a whim, but do you know the exact names of any Secret Service officers at this time?
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-08-04 13:53:51
So let me ask you something, do you have control over the flight route of your airliner, train, or any other form of pre-routed public transit? I have control over where I go. If I want to go to NYC, I go to NYC.
But your example fails because it is a known route.
The President doesn't have a known route. Saying that he has no control over what he does and where he goes just hurts your overall argument for the President.
So, please keep saying that. The President has a security detail that uses one KNOWN route and many classified detour routes as backups.
The President has ultimate control in one aspect: where he goes in the end destination. The Other things, are carefully planned out by the Secret Service protection detail. It's really that simple.
Also, you as a passenger on public transit does not constitute you being able to CONTROL your route. You may know where you are eventually going, but if you arent directly flying the plane you dont know precisely about your route (except maybe a train, since a train can only really go along the tracks).
Who else is responsible for preventing that woman from crossing the street? The person who planned the motorcade route.
You're welcome.
There we go again, here comes the insistence that Obama has no control over where the motorcade goes...
Try again.
Do you think he's involved in the specifics of trivial things like a motorcade route? By that logic, Boehner is responsible for running out of toilet paper in the capital.
Jeez you guys will do anything to carry his water for him. He may not have directly participated in this particular conversation, but he has direct control of the process by either approving policies regarding his motorcade OR appointing people who do it for him.
Either way, he's the one calling the shots, setting the policies, or hiring the people that screw up. The buck stops at one place and one place only.
Technically speaking, The Secret Service hires its own employees. And, The Secret Service may only brief the president in the procedures, but he does not approve or disapprove of the security measures that are in place for his own protection.
Technically speaking the president appoints someone to head the department.
See?
and Technically speaking that person uses their judgement to hire agents. Obama does not directly control this process. You can allude to indirect control but that would be assuming (as is popular among your ilk) that the officials that are appointed into offices are Obamas puppets through and through. Which, is a large illogical leap.
You're words are akin to saying "Architects have no role in building construction because construction companies actually put the pieces together."
By Enuyasha 2014-08-04 13:57:35
Architects and Construction workers are two different things. Architects make blueprints and run numbers. They have a role in the structure yes, but as to actually building the structure: no. Construction companies also have Architects on staff, so?
The President and a department head are two different things. Yes, The President is the head of state and can appoint department heads, but he does not actually run the departments he has appointed people to. Agents of these departments are also not directly under control of the president. He can make executive orders as President to them, but how to execute those orders is up to The Agent in the fields best judgement. Which, is why most candidates for The Secret Service are highly skilled LEO, Military, or otherwise trained personnel that can make the decisions they need to in the field when they need to.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-08-04 13:59:44
This thread is boldly going into some weird presumptions.
FYI: Secret Service is in control of the routes and route planning of the presidential motorcade. Only input the president has is whether he wants to take the motorcade or opt for Air Force 2. Which he has done in the past. And before some of you even start: he doesn't plan AF2's flight path either.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi
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Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-08-04 14:00:12
Architects and Construction workers are two different things. Architects make blueprints and run numbers. They have a role in the structure yes, but as to actually building the structure: no. Construction companies also have Architects on staff, so?
You are just wrong bro, and I say this as a practicing architect.
Is that water getting heavy yet?
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-04 14:00:12
Jesus Nausi.. you're only hurting yourself now...
Edit: especially if you are a practicing architect.
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-08-04 14:03:07
Practicing architect claiming to do actual on site construction?
First: it's licensed architect. Second...NO.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-08-04 14:07:06
Practicing architect claiming to do actual construction?
First: it's licensed architect. Second...NO.
I didn't say "actual construction" I said "role in building construction". Lrn2RD! Architects have a huge role in building construction and they don't put a single piece together.
But by all means keep distorting what I said cause you can't overcome the knee jerk reaction that you might be wrong.
By Enuyasha 2014-08-04 14:11:30
Practicing architect claiming to do actual construction?
First: it's licensed architect. Second...NO.
I didn't say "actual construction" I said "role in building construction". Lrn2RD! Architects have a huge role in building construction and they don't put a single piece together.
But by all means keep distorting what I said cause you can't overcome the knee jerk reaction that you might be wrong. You dont seem to have a very large conceptualized image of what you said to begin with, and are in fact distorting your own statement. BUILDING CONSTRUCTION implies actually constructing the building. An Architect is someone who designs the building in concerns to multiple factors presented by the client and in accordance to building code. The people that actually CONSTRUCT the structure are laborers aka "Construction Workers". Architects may actually go on site to interpret a blue print for a foreman but their job in that instance is nowhere near actually putting the building together.
You are relatively correct, they have a ROLE in the structure but its not construction.
Architect
Construction Worker,Laborer,Etc.
[+]
Lakshmi.Zerowone
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-08-04 14:13:00
Sorry buddy but my name is not Enuyasha and you might want to review what you said he was wrong about and then re read what you just posted... Uh huh yah you did just disagree with a person who was right for the sake of being argumentative and now you are contradicting yourself in response to me.
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