Best Stardiver Set

So I have most of these my mekira is NQ though and I might buy a Pyro soon point is would this be the best set for Stardiver? Are ogiers the best for anyone who can wear them since it's stats +3% WS dmg.

*Atk4/TP+25 augmented WotG earring.
*Vulcan vs Brutal is really close for 2nd earring, but vulcan usually wins bynarrow margin unless rounding is really unfavorable
*Lancer+2 beat ogiers legs.
*Cerb+1/atheling VERY close depending on weapon/mob/buffs. Either works. Cerb wins on lower damage weapons like OAT Coreseca. Atheling wins on higher stuff like Gugnir.
*Make sure heca feet are augmented with Str/atk/polearm

If you don't need the store TP.

Phorcys Korazin > Rheic Korazin +3 > Ares's / Aces's Mail probably beat the body you're using.

Would ares cuirass be useful for this? 2 less str but 8 more attack than +2. Or aces?

Edit: kind of beaten.

Didn't think anyone would reply but hmm I thought Ogier's would be lancer pants but thanks for the insight as for Ace's I haven't really seen shouts for uptala guess I should make my own Phorcy's and Rheic seem out of my reach though I don't know anyone on my server who puts an effort into uncharted also I kinda just came back after 4-5yrs retirement so don't really know anyone or people w/o a life like me as for heca aug i'll work on it :P was thinking of using gigantes sorry for my run on post's I'm too lazy to make em proper.

Ace's Mail is the better alternative until you can get a higher STR piece.

Ares's has slightly more attack, but attack isn't the key factor in this equation, it's STR.

As for the pants, personally I swear by Ogier's. I have not seen anything to prove otherwise yet. Little bit of a discussion earlier somewhere here about how if your base damage was at a higher end digit Ogiers would win, however for lower base damage Lancer's +2 would.

I can't agree in swapping Atheling for Cerb +1 though tbh.

Stardiver gets stronger and stronger the more it DA, or TA.

It's not a flat +1.0 it gains. So double attacking with Stardiver has a bigger punch than DAing with something like Drakesbane who will always be +1.0.

I'm not sure if OAT from something like Corsesca would apply to WS hits, if it does then Brutal Earring would lose to Vulcans easily. However if it doesn't then best option should still be Brutal Earring.

When it comes down to Ring Choices, realistically double Pyrosouls will in fact win. However, for a more balanced -what if- build on high end monsters such as AV, ADL, Higher End VWNM - Strigoi's +3 attack could provide a bit more, thought don't really see it :3

I don't know about DRG, but OAT weapons don't work with WSs. I use an OAT sword, and it works just like joytoy, and that doesn't work on WS, only procs on melee hits. It's separate from double attack too.

Also, you could use af2+2 feet.(if you dont have good augment on heca) That's 7 str and 7 attack.

And does the wsdmg +3% from ogier apply to all hits or just first one?

Overall Weaponskill Damage from what I know.


This being said, then I don't see a justifiable reason as to why Cerberus Mantle +1, and or a Vulcan would beat out Brutal and Atheling.

+8 STR vs +8% DA

I'd take the DA.

However, this implies that for Ryunohige you'd obviously pick the STR.

I completely overlooked the rajas thing. That should (ideally) be a second pyrosoul.

The body pieces, if you can get the lv 100 NI body, great. Use it. I have never seen one :P

Till then the bodies are pretty side-gradeish. Lancers does have a crapload more acc in it for an relatively minor str/atk hit from aces. Accuracy does still matter even to drg sometimes :P Aces for raw power on easy mobs. Lancers for more evasive mobs or for the STP if needed. Both work, just different situations they are best at.
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Str vs DA
Lets use my 'planned' ideal set (i dont quite have it yet :P)

With Atheling/Brutal on imaginary 100vit mob with D139 lance (happens to be damage i have)

12%DA (lancer hands/atheling/brutal)
100 Base Str (mithra Drg/sam 12str merits)
83 str in gear
183 str total.

This set gives me: 21FStr, 155 WSC, D139 weapon=315 WS Base damage.
12% chance to DA on WS basically means you can add 12% of 1 hit's base damage to the WS over time. 12% of 315=37.8 damage. As a WS has 2 chances to DA It will avg out to 12%+12%, so 37.8+37.8

So: Stardiver with Atheling/Brutal base damage (average) is 315+315+315+315+37.8+37.8=
1335.6

Adding 8str to a 100% mod will add 6.8 base damage to WSC. (6 dam 20% of the time, 7 dam 80% of the time). It is also virtually guranteed to raise Fstr by 2. So adding 8str has na 80% chance to increase WS damage by 9 and a 20% chance to raise it by only 8. We gave up 8% DA from the Atheling/Brutal set so only 4% DA.

Using the same method as above, Cerb/Vulcan setup has base damage of:
80% chance to have: 1321.92
20% chance to have: 1317.84

DA gear wins by 1.03% (though Str gear has +1 atk :P) with a D139 lance.

Repeating all that crap for a D110 OAT lance and its:
DA gear: 1123.6
Str gear:1109.76

DA gear wins by 1.01% (though Str gear has +1 atk :P) with a D110 lance.

Well nevermind I take it back. It previously worked out that a 95 Gug/Ryu worked better with DA gear but lv 90 corsesca worked out better with Str gear the last time i compared it. Seems the base damage of the 99 (and better str gear than I used in that comparison a while back) has increased enough. The jist of it is the higher your Str+Base damage, the better DA gets. The lower, the more adding straight damage from str is. Last time i checked this out I was using lower damage polearms than exist now so str eeked it out. Seems the improvements to str gear and lance damage has been enough to narrowly revers it.

Mah bad. Atheling+Brutal>Vulcan+Cerb+1 by a narrow ~1%. (with very low DA)

IMPORTANT NOTE:
However it should be noted that adding more DA has decreasing returns so if you go /war, the tiny 1% gap will get smaller and possibly reverse, or if you use more +DA gear to start with, but im sleepy so Im not going to check where the breakpoint is this now. Buyer beware. This is why Str gear almost always wins for Ryunohige with aftermath up.
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Ogiers vs Lancers

9str increases WSC by 7-8 (65% 8) and Fstr by 2(rarey 25% 3). So generally 10 damage.

Using the above set with atheling, WS abse damage is:
Lancer: 315
Ogiers: 305

Lancers raises base damage by 3.28% which translates directly to 3.28% WS damage. Ogiers directly increases WS damage by 3%.
3.28 > 3.0 Lancers wins.

Lancers also has 4-5 more atk than Ogiers on top of that. The only thing ogiers has going for it is the acc. If oyu need acc, ogiers wins. If you dont it looses.
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TLDR:

*Atheling/Brutal VERY NARROWLY beats Cerb+1/Vulcan, but if you go /war it may be a wash or even reversed. Either way it is still very, very close. Keep a look out in the future for the +5stat earrings and additional DA gear possibly reversing this. Very minor changes to our gear can upend this one.

*Ogiers vs Lancers: Lancers wins in raw power. Ogiers wins if you need acc. Just like the Aces body vs Lancer body. Aces wins if acc capped. Lancer wins if acc uncapped (or need STP).

Edit: Fixed an typo or 2.

Yeah ogiers for ALL jobs, is basically low acc situations, such as high end VW only. I have a pair and it's literally just used for my sam PDT set sadly.

Awesome info. Pretty much confirms what ive been using as I always go /war to VW these days. Thanks!!

Eh. no

I'm with you on most of this, I am. However, in this case you lose me on this part:

Using the above set with atheling, WS abse damage is:
Lancer: 315
Ogiers: 305

Lancers raises base damage by 3.28% which translates directly to 3.28% WS damage. Ogiers directly increases WS damage by 3%.
3.28 > 3.0 Lancers wins

So, the above illustrates 315 vs 305 - 315 obviously having Lancer's +2 in the equation.

The 305 however, only represents a Dragoon without pants.

If I am correct, you forgot to factor in that 3% WS increase.
Which if by simple math would prove - 305*3% = 9.15% = 314.15

So, that makes the gap a lot smaller.

Now, Lancers will infact always provide a static number, it's not a %. As the increase in strength occures it will always remain 3.28%

If you're at a point where the extra STR is not being turned into fSTR and it's simply sitting as extra ATK aside of WSC, then you lose a whole 2 damage. Which further brings that gap down.

The 3% will always increase the number. Should you at a certain point hit let's say:

320*3% = 9.6 = 329.60
325*3% = 9.75 = 334.75
330*3% = 9.9 = 339.90
350*3 = 10.5 = 360.50

So what I am showing here, while it still in fact is still 3% increase, it's a constant number that grows as far as how much it provides.

Should we get into 400

400*3 = 12 = 412

Now, if these numbers are in fact valid, after having applied that 3%, then that implies that Lancer's +2 would lose at a certain point. This could infact be an easy win for our Elvaan DRG.

Or simply a win for higher base damage lances. IE: Gungnir.

Buyer beware!! Amador is an elvaan drg with gunginir!

Yeah I didn't really want to get into that, I'd rather just laugh at the guy who only uses Ogier's on his SAM for PDT and says they have no use.

However, that math didn't factor boost-str and doesn't account for other races or rather, that another race may get more from Ogier's (they do) or Avant+1 (they do)

The 305 vs 315 was just to show how much lancers increases damage (ie 10) which is 3.28% in this case. Ogiers has no str and thus uses the 305 number, so its 3.28 in the whole, but only makes up 3% of it (which is what you showed). The 314 'narrowing the margin' is just showing the remaining ~0.3% that its behind lancers. Its all the same thing.

Yes, there is a point that ogiers beats lancers in raw damage. That point is having a total WS base damage (no pants) of 334. Lancers will provide more raw damage from the str alone at any point through 333. At 334+ Ogiers takes the lead. For a few examples:

Vs 100 vit mob:
99 gug (D159) needs 182 total str before leg slot for ogiers to win.
99 OAT (D110) needs 226 total str before leg slot for ogiers to win.

This is for it to simply scrape over the edge by any % at all as 333.3 is where they tie exactly. You would need another few points or so to overcome the 4-5 atk on lancers on top of that.

Obviously lower vit reduces the needed str slightly, but at a 4 points of vit for 1 point of damage, it wont swing it very much unless your fighting a lv 50 mob, but who cares then.

If your an elvaan Drg/War(higher str than /sam) you get 99 base. 111 with merits. So ideal scenario as an elv with 99 gugnir you need +71 str. Considering we just pointed out in earlier posts what the 'ideal' gear is, it has +74 str in it.

Drg/War Elv with perfect gear= +3str over. Ogier wins.
Drg/Sam Elv with perfect gear= +0Str over(exact). Ogiers scrapes a 1 point lead.
Drg/War Gal with perfect gear= -1 str under. Ogiers looses
Drg/XXX NotElv With perfect gear= never beats ogiers without an outside str buff.

So yes, if you have a gugnir and are an elvaan and you have the best drakes raw power build (aces mail, 2x pyrosoul, etc) then you can virtually tie ogiers/lancers as /sam and squeak out ogiers for /war.

Note on Fstr: 99 Gugnir caps Fstr at +25. The str needed to beat ogiers vs a 100 vit mob places you at +21 Fstr so Fstr capping is never a factor involved in lancers vs ogiers. The str needed to beat ogiers is before you cap Fstr on Gug/Rhongo 99.

For lower damgae lances, it is vitually impossible to reach 334 base damage. That would require (vs vit 100 mob) an additional 44str. Drg/War Elv needs to dig up 41 str from somewhere. Boost str isnt doing that. Abyssea is the only place you can get that much str period.

Some medium damage lance between 110 and 99Gug/Rhongo D159 might get away with a boost str WITH perfect gear depending on the base D of the lance, but that is still only to TIE, not win, and not win handily.
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TLDR:
Ogiers only ever can beat lancers (in raw damage, not acc) if you either:
*Elv Drg/War with 99 Gugnir/Rhongo with perfect gear.
*Elv Drg/Sam with 99 Gugnir/Rhongo with perfect gear and outside str buff(Virtual tie otherwise)
*Using OAT D110 lance with 226 total str (abyssea using a junkload of str gear/atmas/cruor buffs)

You can squish 2-3 points in either direction depending on mob vit, but that doesnt swing it very much. If you dont have a 99 gug/rhongo a difference in mob vit wont change anything nearly enough to swing the results. Maybe low vit mob with Ryu 99 (also because Ryu star builds have more str gear anyway) so MAYBE possible to get there with RYU.
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TLDR 2.0:
*If you dont have 99 Gug/Rhongo/Ryu and acc is capped, dont use Ogiers. If you do, start mathing because its going to be VERY VERY close and gear/mob specific.
*Ogiers can win in abyssea.
*If you have a VERY VERY high damage lance(not relic/mythic/empy), perfect gear AND boost str, Ogiers MIGHT tie if your lucky. Case by case Check. If no boost Str and no Gug/Rhong/Ryu forget about it.

Ogiers is good, but the 3% damage doesnt beat str options except for elves with 99 gug/rhongo and MAYBE Ryu. For the rest of the world its an acc oriented piece, not a power piece. If acc uncapped, by all means. But if acc is capped, it wont win.

Should be noted that it's worth WSing in Lancer body+2 over Ace's Mail for Store TP most of the time to maintain 5 hit.

Ummm.... Do you mean its not worth it in VW? Cause if you are not getting TP from somewhere else it it worth keeping 5hit.

I would always keep 5 hit but then my Atmacite aren't even upgraded since I haven't been back long! I don't see the appeal of Ace's Mail on DRG.

TBetween both the STP and the 14dex/14acc(24.5acc) i just default to lancers. 24-25 acc alone is friggin crazy, STP is icing, though necessary icing for my 492del 5hit build.

I honestly cant be arsed to create a new WS macro JUST for VW when you have dumb amounts of regain. I do have 2 other 'non'5hit TP sets and I use one of those for VW (3 if you count my Haste/-DT build), but cant be bothered to also edit my jump/WS macros every time I do VW.

I really dont care about aces mail because of all that. Its a sidegrade for when you are both acc capped AND dont need the STP. Thats situational enough that I dont really care to go far outta my way to get it.

Edit: Forgot about avant+1 till it was mentioned.
Avant+1 legs are a better choice than ogiers for most acc capped stuff for similar reasons to lancers. -1str, -a couple attack+2DA. Both are pretty close. I havent checked which wins and probably depends entirely on if that 1str breaks both a FStr tier and WSC, But i focus on drakes and -1inv for a 0.X% increase to a WS i dont use constantly is a bit much with my inventory woes these days, but non-ryu drgs should strongly consider avant or lancers.

Instead of editing every time, why don't you just make a new set of macros for vw? >.>

sup <if BuffActive="Voidwatcher"

Lazy. Id have to make 2 new sets. One /war, one /sam and just havent. (Edit: I mean edit the line in the in-game macro that points to which gearset.txt I made. Im not actually editing the extended macros every time i change events :P)

I dont use spell cast.

/waits for gasps.

gasp

i would give up mithra for lent for that polearm of yours :(

EDIT: Oh, since I know from your posts on Alla and here that you like fiddling with math/gearsets and stuff intelligently;

Consider Calmecac Trousers (probably with Zelus Tiara if those Bestia are 4haste) vs a standard build. Definitely has situational use.

Since I use 507 delay I don't have to worry about not capping Haste but you use 492 obviously.

I used to be like that. I have discovered my errors

I kinda miss my 507 delay corsesca. I loved it long time and the gear sets are far more flexible, but thats all i miss about it :P

To be honest, I was just holding onto bestia until i got the new askar leg clones with like 6haste/10stp or whatever HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE stats it has. But then Neo NI sucked really bad. Now im waiting for the update. I wasnt expecting to use these 'holdovers' that long, but it keeps getting strung out with NI sucking. Eventually, i just plan on using new 'super askar' head and legs which will give me LOTS of flexibility as they have more haste AND STP than existing stuff. Until then, /shrug. I should probably revamp my drg gear a bit. I havent really done much with it since i started/finished my mandau. Should probably give my whole setup a fresh look at this point. Im sure there are tweaks to be made by now.

Its just not a line i want to cross. Nothing to do with 'ZOMG EETZ CHEATING' or anything, its just 1 level of autonomy farther than I prefer to play at. Kinda like in a fighting game with a programable controller. I dont mind setting a trigger to be the 2 buttons opposite each other that are kinda hard to hit at the same time with 1 thumb. But I dont want to program it to do a 15 hit combo at the touch of a button.

Making that hard to hit opposite buttons simpler makes my playtime more enjoyable. Having a 15 hit combo on autopilot doesnt add fun for me. I like extended macros because they make the game more enjoyable than that 6lin max BS. but would rather do the fancy combos myself manually. More fun for me, even if not peak possible efficiency :P

You should definitely get SC for its other perks, though. Trivializing command entry is a huge benefit that doesn't step over any automation lines.

Yeah, even if you don't use a spellcast script, it will allow you to type things like /ma Cure5 Rae to cure me (assuming nobody else has a name similar to mine nearby).

It's more about making rules for things and not needing to change a macro sheet or have different sets for different events.

For example, a different rule for WS legs in VW or with Boost-STR active, etc.